Third Millennium Education
Third Millennium Education

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Henry Warren, Executive Chairman of Watobe and Co-Founder of Turn On The Subtitles


Henry Warren - Executive Chairman of Watobe and Co-Founder of Turn On The Subtitles

In this episode we hear from Henry Warren, Executive Chairman of Watobe and Co-Founder of Turn On The Subtitles.

“What was really interesting was kind of how many of those companies hadn't really kicked on beyond their country of origin. Because it's really hard to do. And then especially when you're selling into a school system, the amount of interdependencies are remarkably complex.”

“Why not look at the role of the human and the role of technology and redefine those boundaries?”


“This is about how you support kids through a learning process that can be really hard, right? How do you keep them motivated? How do you give them those metacognition skills that are going to allow them to thrive in life beyond that?” 

“I think the really interesting bit, though, is what's happening outside of school.”

Time Stamps:

[0:41] Henry’s childhood experience of education.

[2:37] Life changing decision by Henry’s parents during his A-levels.

[4:27] Henry and his friends started filming a documentary of the schools they built in Uganda, Africa.

[7:40] What makes Henry think that technology has not impacted education yet.

[11:23] Henry’s examples of interesting things that are happening in the developing world.

[14:33] Henry’s choice of the tipping point of current edtech.

[17:40] What Henry has to say about putting AI in education technology.

[19:47] What should be improved in the current education system and how?

[22:05] An article on Guardian inspires him to understand how subtitles improve children's literacy.

[27:15] In what ways subtitles double the literacy rates of children?

[31:49] Henry brings high quality input in 15 minutes through mobile phones.


To connect with Zenna Hopson go to

I'm delighted to be hosting this podcast. Third Millennium Education. It's a collection of thoughts and inspirations of stakeholders within education. What is education for? On who is it serving? This's a podcast exploring state mandated education, its relevance impact and how it can best meet the needs of third millennium learners. Employers on the country. My interview. Exciting people who have had direct experience of education. Whether you are a parent, training to be a teacher, a policy maker and academic or an education innovator, nobody working attack. There will be something for you. I'm your host, Zanna Hopes. Hi, Henry. I'm delighted to be interviewing you for my education podcast their millennium education just to give you an introduction. Henry Warren, you're a med tech entrepreneur who we've known and worked together for probably well over a decade now. I've always been inspired by your thoughts on your ability to continue to innovate. So I'm really looking forward to talking to you. Let's kick off by you giving me your opening thoughts about what's your experience of education. You can take that question any way you want it. It's really good to be here. Thank you. So what why, in my opening thoughts on education well, I think we're in a really interesting point in history. I think we are one of those inflexion points on DH that has been somewhat expedited by bike. Oh, bid. I mean, we've long known that technology is going to have an impact in education, but frankly, it really hasn't made much of a dent so far. I used to get in terrible trouble Pearson for standing on various stages and saying that the last big game changing piece of education technology was the blackboard on. I still think that's probably the case, but that will not always be so. I believe on you mentioned Pearson. What else have you done in the world of education? Whiles overdone. So I started off well, my my weird career. As you know, I mean, my my kind of journey in education started off probably with with my own schooling or frankly lack there off. I didn't attend a huge amount, and so I wass predicted to fail pretty much every exam I ever sat, which I think is a fair prediction based on the evidence that they had, which was not a lot. Luckily, I did manage Teo recently, Okay? In my exams, which I think more by luck than judgement. But I I started off kind of my career in education by my parents put me on a plane to Africa. They basically just so fed up with the fact that I hadn't hadn't turned up Andi. I was predicted to be failing my A levels. And so they said, Oh, for God's sake, you just need to grow up. So they literally put me on planes, sent me to Uganda and said, Right,...'re gonna go there, can go work in a school for the hit on. Then you come back, You can reset your A levels and get on with your life on DH. That kind of really kick started my my whole kind of fascination with both the developing world on also with education. Because whilst I was out there, the school was burned down and a riot It was pretty horrific, actually on. But I did the garnish stupid thing that that 17 18 year olds do, which is? I made a promise that I'd help him help the head teacher. We build his school not having a clue how I was going to do that. But anyways, I came came back and they do not founded a charity. And we we built that school. They ended up building a dozen other schools across across East Africa and that kind of got me got me started really in that space. And then I did happen. Teo luckily managed to get into university. But my less than stellar academic career continued at university. Where is much more interested in, frankly running parties? And then then the charity, which was my real passion on DH. So I managed to convince you how I did This one makes you coming to the university to let me take a film crew out to out to Uganda to don't filming these three schools that we that we built. I'm gonna stand film crew really mean my mates way. Read a book quickly. Yeah, it'll be fine. We could be making documentary lt'll be cool. Eyes terrible is actually terrible, but anyway went out on DH as we were talking to a lot of these things. Kids we built this school's on DH there, saying this It was very nice. Thank you. No idea who you are on DH, why you're here. And we suddenly realised that really bother to tell anyone about this on DH? Well, on whether there's something here about linking these schools are we built all these libraries and linking them back to you to schools in the UK on DH? That was kind of the genesis for what later became Rafiki, which was this some large online community of schools. But the first generation of it was utterly disastrous. It was. This's isn't back in like the 32 thousands. I think it must be Andi. We had this incredible brain wave that we were going to send video Bactine forwards between these schools except really figured out there is going to take six weeks to post a bloody VCR tape backwards and forwards between can't in the UK on. So by the time this thing turned up, these kids were I'm sorry, what was this again? That didn't really work on DH. So we thought, well, nascent thing called the Internet and being around a little bit by them, but certainly not no massive in schools, but wonder whether we could do something here. So I got together with a friend of mine knickers, brilliant programmer, and I learned a little bit of design really badly on between that...

...building this this software that later became Rafiki, which ended up linking schools and set up 122 countries. Actually, in the end, getting kids collaborating together anyway, that's great fun. We didn't really wicked things there on DH doing live video links to the North Pole, getting kids learning about climate change and doing links to between get in Israel and Palestine collaborating together. That was this's very long. Answer your questions and I'm liking it. I'm waffling massively, so I should speed up and get to today. So anyway, so often I spent a bunch of different things. I spent out a education tools company that various different things for people. That director remember them on DH chow for BBC and various companies and Levy, it was fun. I also set up a fundraising company for various different soon two medium size charity's called foolish fundraising. You know I still owns it, still owned the Guinness World Record for the most number of sumo wrestlers in a foot race. I never show it as proud of that we'll know. Um, I think I would be so proud. Yeah. Anyhoo so And then? Then after that, I moved into the commercial sector work gems. And then they went to to Pearson, where I end up innovation and did all sorts of fun and funky things with everything from virtual reality through to try to convince him to stop printing it on before we get on to what you're doing now. Because there's a couple of things I know about their really interesting. You just wanna circle back. You mentioned that a Pearson. You're doing a lot fun, funky things from virtual reality and education. And yet you opened by talking about the fact that you don't think technologies have the impact that it could have had on education yet. And I I agree we've been to I realise we've actually known each other two decades. God, that's terrifying way the case to your blood? Yeah, I think from 2000. No, no. 15 years, Okay. With 15 years, um, much supposed civilised. But I certainly know that I've been since 2000 talking about the impact that I think technology will have on education. And why hasn't And what what is working well with technology and education? What still needs to happen? What's the Blue sky? What's going on there? Okay, so there's their pockets of stuff that really works. Okay, But they say that the future in Senior Storey not just more evenly distributed. So I mean, we could all point to lots of really interesting examples where education technology has really worked. Right challenges is scaling these things. I mean, way could talk for hours about why it's so difficult to actually really scale stuff. A lot of that comes down Teo to money and politics. Really. I mean, you get what...

...was actually one of my last Rolls Pearson waas running a ruler of about a billion gas worth about revenue. Looking at you know which which businesses Tio Tio scaled up in, which wants to potentially vacate on DH. What was really interesting was how many of those companies had really kicked on beyond their country of origin. Okay, uh, because it's really hard today, it's really hard to do on DH there, especially when you're selling into a school system. The amount of kind of interdependence is a remarkably complex and take something like mats. Okay, so you know, one would assume that masses masters maths, right? You know, is just fundamentally not. It's different things and talked of different ages. There are there are broken on, trumped up in different ways on DH, You know you. In some countries, it's extremely what What's the word? They dictate exactly what you need to cover in a particular period of time and particularly year, another one so much more flexible. So what I mean is, when you're creating kind of content and banks, except it's it's hard Teo, Then apply that to different school systems. And then when you add on top of that on the killer of cool ed tech businesses, which is cost of customer acquisition, it's really flipping hard to sell into schools. So I think one of the last numbers I looked out on this it's 14 £1,502,000 on average, you're upto probably acquire UK School is a customer, so yeah, it's it's really, really tough on DH. Schools love them, but they're horrible customers. If you A if you have a business that is pretty difficult to work with. But do we think this is always going to be the case. Probably not. I think there are some big systemic changes that are happening. So the most interesting stuff that we're seeing is actually is not in the UK and it's not it's not. The state is not. Frankly, even in the developed world, it's the developing world. Weather Really interesting stuff is happening on guy. Think it's it'll take 10, 15 years before properly percolates over here. So talk me through some of those really interesting things that you think is happening in the developing world. Well, so if you look a tw o in the UK, 37% of kids probably educated in sub Saharan African now I think it's just going over. Sorry, my phone has just gone over 25% 25% of all kids on then. If you say look at the population explosion that you're seeing across much of one particular in Africa, I mean, by 2030 the majority of all learners on the planet are gonna be in Africa, right? It's not like it when you did not need that. So the private, the private sector is absolutely booming. The majority that though are mom and pop private schools,...

...and it's pretty much the Wild West. There are some brilliant examples, and there are lots of terrible examples, but that's it. You know so much the interesting bit. As far as I'm concerned, I think the really interesting bit is what's happening outside of school. So in the UK could memory serves 26% off? Parents have some form of the dish intuition for their child. My guest is post coping. That's that's gone up quite a bit, but some form additional initially. I like tutoring service or some from additional software they use in Stop Sahara Africa. It's his 45% in South Korea's 95% right, and it's all trending upwards So, But if you look at places like the Indian subcontinent, that's where some. There's some really interesting stuff going on there. Like much people in the UK won't have heard of. Baiju Budget B Y J u Apostrophe s if you want to Google it. But that's now valued at over 10 billion, right? No one in the UK so out of it on what this is. It's an after school programme, so a bit like the one that is now just Tony escaped my mind. I mean, I'm seeing him like this. I actually just got off the phone. Here's my runs. The political campaign for talks, which I'll tell you about the second he starts trying to reach me. Some reason is that worrying? Maybe anyway, while saying that would be absurd buys you provide a service outside of outside of school. So the idea behind it is pretty simple is that a child goes to a traditional school, is told, Let's say quadratic equations. Except they're not because the standard of education is pretty woeful. Um, you know, overcrowded costumes, Underqualified teachers, etcetera, etcetera. And so then they go home. And they say, Can I borrow your phone? Can I borrow your tablet on on That are great examples off that particular lesson they would've covered that day, along with various different tests they can take and in theory, this vague levels off off the doctor learning within it. But I just it's in parents of buying insurance. It's I'm not convinced that my my child's school this is sufficiently good. I'm gonna buy this service alongside that, But this is serious money that they're spending on this. You know, you're talking a big proportion of household income is going towards this well, and so what do you think? What? Is there a tipping point? What more could technology do? What could the tipping Point B Well, I think the tipping point. It's more technological. So if you look at things like like, newspapers, Okay. Remember when newspapers first appeared online? You literally had to turn the page on the screen, right? Remember this? And it was a terrible experience. Way of scrolling down except on We see...

...this again and again with technology that we take a paradigm, a model, something that's working in one form we showed online with exactly the same on. Then we get very upset. That doesn't really work. Andres can still in that paint face with education. I think so. Look fundamentally. There's Mitchell. Appreciate what does someone doesn't work when it comes to comes to tech, I'm not expected to do everything, So I think the next generation off tech will really understand the role of the human. It is right. That is to say, it's extremely difficult for technology to motivate kids. I mean, everyone talks about game vacation. Yeah, fine. Okay, it does up to a point. Andi is kind of helpful, but it can't do the same thing as having a fabulous teacher can look you in the eye and say, You know, you've done really well on that. I'm really proud of you, for for that piece of work, or I know you could do better. That piece of motivation is it's very, very hard to do that technology. So why my brother, right? Why try with that? Why not look at the role of the of the human and the role of the technology and redefined those batteries? So we're already seeing this happen in higher education. So there's company in South Africa that you recently bought by to you they have. They took. So the average mook completion rate. I think it's something woeful like 11 12%. It's like, really low. Um, but what they've done is by just adding in the human component, they've taken up to 80 90% completion rate because simply you've got someone the cheques in with you and says, Well, how you doing on this? You know, you seem to be getting a bit behind on this. How can we help you? You're part of a bigger community on that kind of human intervention alongside the technology is really, really powerful. Now it's harder to do with a K 12 levels harder to make the economic stack up. But it is doable, and it is coming. Right? So the tipping point is really understanding the balance between what support for human and what's important for attack. Andi, actually, starting with the human, not attack, you always got to start with humans. Really? Text me, Everett. All. I mean, what's that? I am Absolutely. But the tech you talking this? I suppose I am somewhat biassed towards it. You know, I'm very away. It is just a tool on you. Go star with the problem on and go start with the humans that you're trying to impact, right? I absolutely agree. And I think that what's also interesting here is that we have designed a school system that in all, honesty hasn't changed much for almost a century. On we go through a process and we canter along it on. Do we? You know, I was talking to some of the other day and they described its tick boxing. Somebody else described it as a hurdle race on. We all go through...

...the same funnel, and I think that technology has a role to play in, making sure that we can actually all play much better to the game. We want to play. But I think you're right that that human component is absolutely essential because I've worked a lot with disadvantaged, disengaged young people on DH. I know the only thing that has an impact towards change is the relationship doesn't actually matter what you're doing or what all you're using to do it. It is the relationship that drives change, and I just I'm interested in how we get that relationship in technology, any role fray either. Does it have to be a real person? We're not there yet. We said we're a long way off Any kind depends what you mean by I. I mean Dio do I think that we're going to be able to programme empathy in that stretch right? That's a long way off from from where we are. That said, I quite often show this clip in many speeches that I do of this child having a profound conversation and then giving a hug to do what she thinks offers a robot. It's actually an air conditioning, so I mean, can you actually, can you actually imbue personalities on DH have relationships with things that aren't necessarily human? Yeah, Campbell IQ only already. Do you envisage being a kind of a rowboat, Mr Mr Tibbs, Anytime soon? No, I don't I don't think so. But the A I can do is it can put the right content in front of the right people at the right time and adapt that. That is, that is reasonably not easy to do, but it's that's much more feasible. Yeah, I agree. On what role in your experience do you think technology can play in actually getting the accreditation point? Our accreditation point at the moment is you get your SAT at 11, you juicy asses at 16 and your A levels 18. If that's the route you go down or your B tech or your apprenticeship. What role can technology play in either? Well, I do think that's a good system, Andi. If you don't, how could technology enable that system to be better? Does anyone think it's a good system anyone does. It's maybe there's some civil servants. Listen to me because they're still peddling it. And possibly there's some politicians that still think it's fabulous because they don't see much changes because change is change is really hard, right in education system. Really, really hard. So no, it's not a good system. I mean, I'll ultimately a lot of it is that comes down. Teo comes down to signalling, and it's pretty crude. Sickling att, The end of this. I mean, ultimately what we really want to know is, you know, when it comes to it, if you look at it in terms of education to be able to allow someone to do that the right job for them, then the much better way of...

...doing that is understanding what they appears. Think offthe um, so you can look at what's happening in things like the tech world, where sites like Stack overflow of being around for quite some time. So if I want, if I want to hire the job script developer, what I can do is I can actually go on Teo to stack overflow. I can understand exactly how the entire community seems that it's pretty easy to be able. Tio Tio rank and rate people according Tio, How they how they respond on sites that stack over like now is that is that transferrable Teo hairdressing problem? Probably not. We do still have a fairly a long way to go. I think Michael couldn't micro credentials have had a pretty bad rap over the last decade, But I don't think that's something that we want we want to give up on. I think it is really worth pushing that that stuff through. Okay, Thank you. You've mentioned tops a few times. We've gotta know Tell us about tough talks is bonkers. This is this's what this is a case. About two years ago, I got this email from a good friend of mine. Only Baron is one people I just I rate most in the world on DH was guardian article write a few paragraphs on the gist of it. Wass There's a whole other research that's come out then shows that if you put subtitles on Children's TV programmes, it dramatically proves illiteracy on. I thought, Huh, That's kind of interesting. I've never heard of that before, so I was reading this quite late at night, and I was a bit bored and I thought, Well, there was a guy who was cited in it seems a professor from Hawaii and I thought, Well, it's late at night here. It will be a reasonable time. The Argentine McCall. And so this rather bemused academic picked up the phone to me, and I kind of proceeded to grill him for this part of an hour about this. Andi concluded with him saying, Like you really need to go and talk to this guy called Bridge Kothari, who works out of the university. Come foryou. Berkeley. He's kind of the preeminent expert on this fine bridge. I couldn't find him anywhere, couldn't couldn't get over them, eventually tracked him down to a village in India where he was running a bunch of experiments on this. Andi, I had a terrible line, and I had this conversation where I think I was probably a bit rude because I have a little bit sceptical about it. Don't really believe in magic bullets sending to me your evidence, which is the sort of thing one says and then immediately regrets it. I like the little pump, This man was a massively pompous on May way have become really good friends since he's forgiven me. But he sent me through thiss mounted in evidence. So I immediately regretted asking it for because I remember that I'm not an academic. I can't frankly tell good research from bad. Really still think this huge swathe of data was bloody island earlier. This so Ali and I...

...thought, Well, we'll take it along. Teo Dane Julia, Clever. Who is the chair of the National Literacy Trust? Yeah, let's let's see what they think of this, you know, is this culture. So they went away, looked at all this stuff very kindly for us, came back a month or so later and said, Oh my God, we've never heard This is incredible. This makes a huge difference. In fact, in many cases, for weaker readers, this could double the literacy acquisition rates, right? And then we all had the same question. Which is why is this not a thing? So it turns out it's not a thing for two reasons. One technology. Up until pretty recently, thie subtitle tracks mainly didn't exist. It is only because of accessibility legislation that now they're pretty ubiquitous and secondly, the digital switch over. So the digital switchover meant that beforehand. Remember, you have 888 on your remote control, and I'll put your subtitles on, but with a digital switchover, that's now you don't need to do that on DH there. Setting that you put on will stay on after the television is turned off. And as everything moves towards video on demand as well. Suddenly all the technological problems, they just fade away. And the second thing wass that it was just one of these ideas that was locked in academia on DH academics. Turns out, I've known about this for 15 years. I didn't know about it, but they did so Ali and I thought, Well, frankly, we have no real discernible skills, but we do have reasonable address book, So I wonder whether we can kind of package this idea up, lobby over the fences and broadcasters and see what happens on DH again. That was one of probably my most naive thoughts of because I'm 18 months on Honesty Centre is being the biggest roller coaster, so it's gone from being the back of that being that wasn't actually a prep napkin way did this product placement there? Other other poor sandwich shops are available, But so, yeah, we screwed this on back of napkin and 18 months is gone from from nothing to being the world's largest literacy project. So we've managed to get it over the line in terms of legislation in India so more written into legislation whereby 2025 50% off a linear programming all in your broadcast will have subtitles on by to default on its already started. Netflix are now running a global pilots on it. If you got young Children at home is a very good chance it already being turned on by by Netflix, or you'll have received some messaging. Ah, YouTube. Kids are also running it partially with some of their bigger had some of the bigger content providers, and we're in conversation with pretty much all of the other broadcasters on it. So it's it's impacting over 300 million kids today. We're also in the process off, taking through legislation... the UK on we have a big concert programme that's gonna be starting in January, going out to every school and potentially every every family in the UK, But watch this space on that one. Absolutely fascinating. And it has the potential to double the literacy rates of Children. Yes, what we find is that the data shows that it's particular effective. I was gonna age ages 6 to 10. That's kind of mainly where it sweets boys in the UK. But really, what it means is when When kids can decode 55 or more phone names, you start to see an uptick. But when they are reasonably fluent on their breeding for comprehension rather than your side spelling out phoney, that's when you started the big uptick. And then they started to kind of the perfect Peters out once they become been pretty proficient readers. So you assume, come, Jesus, he kind of time. So it's really has an impact in key states. Three. We're hearing anecdotally at you from schools in the UK that rolled it out that they're seeing improvement. That's really interesting. Is one of my Andi look at me making a great segue way here. But I've already mentioned one of my absolute passions is how you engage young people who are already experiencing several barriers to engagement on. Actually, this type of technology if they're little and the TV is on. And you know we have a huge uptake of television in the UK on their watching Children's TV. It's a done deal, isn't it? Absolutely is. Which is why, for me, why the default setting is so important? Yes, well comes campaign in January, and we will reach out to a lot of families. But ultimately it's It's the kids that our sense of being raised by television once I really want to help. So the default setting is this Sunday. I mean, I love it because it is, it is. If that default is on, actually, parents and young people are less likely to fiddle with it. If you have to put it on, you're less likely to do it. So how close are you to getting is a default in the UK? I remember signing a letter for or you that went off did and thank you so much for that because it made a big difference, right? So it was that letter that went out to re tastings of Netflix, and then they've done it right? So it worked. I am nothing. Still, we're still obviously in negotiations with a lot of the other broadcasters. No one has said to us, This is a dumb I clear no one sent to us, you know, be gone. This is this's crazy. ItT's just a case of getting this extradited, getting his further up there. They're roadmaps handsome. Any other things? Let out your sleep using technology, really, simply to have a massive impact. What? You boy, what yu noodling on war manoeuvring on So that the mobile I have a chair thiss rather wonderful company down in down in South Africa called Toby, which is, I mean, you have to talk about buys you. It's a somewhat kind of idea, right? So in Africa,...

...we've got huge problems with educational deprivation. So I mean, I know where to begin with. It's all we got. We're missing 1.2 million teachers across the continent, and that's that's today, right? The standard of teaching across the continent is is no high. Even in South Africa, which is one of the better ones, four out of five teachers can't do the sums that they're asking their 12 year olds to do right? Andi, do we see a lot of this changing any time soon, Probably know, because of the lack of capital investment available in this in the state sector. So take tens. And here, for example, Tanzania has 2% of the education budget that the UK does well, twice the number of kids. So it's really massively surprising that they're struggling. Okay, so what we are looking at is, you know, what are the levers that you can pull to be able to really make a difference of these kid's lives? And yet you can absolutely do stuff in terms of teacher training and improving schools on DH young involved in some of those. I'm just going impatient centre. That doesn't move fast enough. And so I think probably the best lever that I can help pull is to support these kids out of school. Right? Is Teo to be on something like a Well, regardless of whether you can attend school or regardless of the calibre of teaching that you're getting, we're going to provide it for you a home, right? So we don't need to spend a lot of time with that. We can actually achieve Mohr in 15 minutes than you can in several hours in a classroom of 50 old kids with a teacher that probably doesn't know that much about what they're actually teaching. So how you doing? What are you doing? What technology using How's that happening? How you getting that? 15 minutes of high quality input into the hands of the most disengage disadvantaged. It's mobile phones. It's using mobile phones. S o. The smart phone revolution has had a huge impact on the developing world, particular in Africa, where many, many countries leading the way. I remember several years back ride where they lost a good M pesa in Kenya. So this is like mobile money, right on DH back at the time. So get this point. 40% of Kenya's GDP was going through this mobile money payment system at the same time. In the UK, the biggest user of mobile money was Barclays own cafeteria. So the Mistress Africa streaming ahead. Okay, no one ever talks about the place of the development worked, actually outstripping the original colonial masters that perhaps it's just a bit distasteful, but But often I think the most interesting stuff does tend to come from from the therapy world. So,...

...yeah, now to your question. What technologies of using? We're building our own platforms where our licencing content from a variety of different sources. But we're spending a lot of time thinking about that, that the role of the human being in this This is no about shovels and content onto a device. And off you go. This is about how do you support kids through learning process? That can be really hard, right? How do you keep them motivated? How do you give them those medical mission skills that are going to allow him to thrive in life beyond that? And when will we start to see the impact of that? When? How far out are you? We're we're really seeing It s Oh, we're really lucky. We've got a brilliant chief exact called Eric running it down there on. We've got some really wonderful investors who have Bean brilliant. Everyone from Nick Jenkins from Dragon's den. He may be aware off on a bunch of other fabulous people on, so the results are already coming in. The efficacy is looking pretty good the moment we're seeing big upticks at the most intense of the Children's Children's progress. We're only focusing on a couple of years, The moment of secondary like Tio Teo Wind that out would also like to look at other subjects. And we're starting to look a TTE white range of steam on how we do that. But always with one eye on how do we have your rollers out across a continent can not interested in doing something in one country I'm interested in. How do you do this on a massive scale? So you're gonna be thinking about all of these different factors your route to market creating curriculum, agnostic taxonomy tze and boring things like that in order to lay to really scale. So you know when, uh when are we going to do the big big scale up? Well, hopefully soon. Watch this space. Excellent. I really look forward to hearing about that. We might podcast again once that space has been watched. Henry, it's been an absolute pleasure. I love your statement that the biggest revolution in technology and education has been the blackboard. Let's hope your project is going to be the next biggest. Thank you so much for your time. Um, on DH. I've really enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode of Third Millennium Education. I'd like to know what has been your biggest takeaway from this conversation. If you did enjoy this episode, do hit the subscribe button to continue to receive future episodes. If you would like to be interviewed or you know somebody who would be good to interview, please also get in touch. I hope you'll join me on the next episode, and together we can carry on the conversation to ensure that we can best meet the needs of Third Millennium Learners employers in the country. Thank you again and see you on the next episode.

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