Third Millennium Education
Third Millennium Education

Episode 2 · 1 year ago

Asha Alexander, Principal of The Kindergarten Starters


In this second episode we hear from Asha Alexander, principal of The Kindergarten Starters in Dubai.

“It takes a war, a climate disaster or a pandemic to force educators to actually let go what they are familiar with, and to embark on new journeys.”

“You might call me stupid or you might call me brave, to get rid of textbooks and learn in a very open way.”

“Nowadays, children can just Google anything they want to learn, what they need is a platform or an opportunity to use those skills. We want creativity, we want collaboration, we want out of the box thinking, but we’re putting them in a box.”

Time Stamps:

[2:45] What motivates Asha to embrace digital learning

[5:10] Parents initial reactions with open learning

[8:13] Teacher reactions to early stages of open learning

[12:49] Children reactions to early stages of open learning

[17:24] Synchronising online open learning during pandemic

[19:11] Children adapting open learning with devices

[22:26] Skills that children gained from primary education to their next stages of learning

[24:25] Will skills gained from open learning help students graduate at a higher academic level?

[26:43] Importance of ethics to modern technology

[29:30] Common Sense Media - Digitally literate skill

[30:11] How opening learning impacted standardized tests on children

[31:41] Will children feel challenged transiting from open learning to traditional learning?

[33:08] Asha thoughts on open learning in secondary schools


To connect with Zenna Hopson go to 

I'm delighted to be hosting thispodcast. Third Millennium Education. It's a collection of thoughts andinspirations of stakeholders within education. What is education for? Onwho is it serving? This's a podcast exploring state mandated education, itsrelevance impact and how it can best meet the needs of third millenniumlearners. Employers on the country. My interview. Exciting people who have haddirect experience of education, whether you are a parent, training to be ateacher, a policymaker, an academic education innovator, nobody workingattack. There will be something for you. I'm your host, Zanna hopes. Welcome to the podcast. Today I'm intoAsher Alexander, who is simple off the gems kindergarden starters in Dubai.She's been educated in India and in America. On at her current school,she's introduced an exclusively digital curriculum on her. Passion is aboutvalue based line. So it's my real little welcome you on. I look forwardto hearing your thoughts on education. Yes, that's something very exciting forme. I'm very passionate about education on where it is headed, looking at theway things have changed after the panda made. I've been thinking a lot aboutwhy were so reluctant to let go off what we're familiar with. You know,it's taken a war and or it's taken a climate disaster or a pandemic to forceeducators to actually let go what they are familiar with and to embark on newjourneys as I watching gems. We had started ourdigital curriculum some nine years ago, and we were among the very few who hadthought about the blended kind of a curriculum. But today everyone's beingforced into that and their ill prepared to meet it because they didn't have thevision that this might come about. They were happy with the practises that theywere usedto so if you rush into things without preparation, you almost at thatvery same spot I was in nine years ago when I actually made the transition.But I didn't have to deal with the pandemic at that time. So for educatorstoday, the problem is they're in a bad spot. They've got to see the Childrenand educated on yet that teachers are woefully prepared on DH, pushed intothis mode of remote learning and just under a month before we go into whatyou'd like to see changed and how your curriculum is that for where we are now,take me back a few stages. To what motive will any any of your educationhistory? But I'm really interested in what motivated you nine years ago toembrace this world of digital learning.

I walked into a school, which was likeout of the Industrial Revolution. Brown desks was staring at me in rows andChildren had their faces towards the teacher. And I thought that wassomething very wrong in a primary school, especially to have, ah,regimented kind of approach. It just felt so unreal that we were havingclassrooms of that kind. But it didn't seem to matter to anybody. The schoolwas full of Children. We have almost 5000 plus in one single facility. Ourparents were happy. The management was happy. I seem to be the only unhappysoul there. And then I decided that I can't letthis go on. You know, sometimes we wait for school boards to change. We waitfor management to take different views. But as educators, if I'm gonnacompromise on my vision for education, that no one can make the changes but me,I have to be the beginning So when I saw those classrooms, the first thinghonestly was This is not the way I want to see Children lunch. And that was thestart of wanting to change instruction. And I knew that as long as theWhitewater green board was behind the teacher and the teacher was physicallyin front of the class, I couldn't change the mode of instruction. So youmight call me. You're better in my call me brave, but I decided to do somethingwhich was to removed textbooks. Percy have nothing against textbooks as aresource, but when textbooks become the only way of teaching Children, youbecome reliant on content delivery. So I said, we're going to get rid of textbooks. We're gonna have a very open way of learning. We're going to draw arecontent from different sources what's happening around us from storybooksfrom newspapers. We don't need the textbook on my word with parentsbecause you said come into huge school 5000 people's, so probably double thatnumber of parents management. What were people's reactions when you said no,That's it. Out with the textbooks out Was the whiteboards. Yes, So what? Iwill tell you exactly what happened. I give them six months of time to thinkabout it. I sent circulars. I explained my vision. I wanted to tell, and thisis what I'm going to do. But no one, actually, I think, took me seriouslyuntil the start of the school year when they came to buy their books and theywent to the supplier and said, Give us the books And he said, There are nobooks, there s stationary. There is some notebooks, there's a crayons andthis some play doh. But there is no textbook. You can imagine the kind ofreaction I got people waking up as if...

...they were hearing it for the first time.They marched into my office and the office is off my leadership team and weexplained that we had told you, and this is what we're about to do. But wewant you to be with us, not against us. We will be one of fair chance to see ifthis works. And believe me, this dozen work. I'll be the first person to rollit back. But give us a year to see if this kind of education system works sowe began to introduce this, but we had to learn very, very quickly because wehad to correct on the go to be frank. If I look back one year, the wass chaosbut the in the midst of the chaos was this sense of being able to accomplishwhat we wanted. And parents began to see a certain elements off learningtaking place which I think are necessary. You see, we want Children tobe creative. We want Children to be collaborative. But if the environmentdoesn't lend itself to creativity and collaboration, it will not just happen,even the way their seated did not lend itself to collaboration. The additionalrose. It's a traditional rose, but I think more. It was the mindset that theteacher was the fountain of knowledge and she had to give all this peopleconsumers of knowledge. You know, the teacher poured out everything and thestudents were consuming content. And today, when you look at it, you reallydon't need anybody to give you content. E I just go go. Anything I want tolearn on the materials already there. What I need is a new opportunity, Aplatform to use those skills. And if we don't provide that in this school, howdo we expect Children to become collaborative? It's very easy to throwwords and say We want 21st century learning skills. We want creativity. Wewant collaboration. We want out of the box thinking. But we're putting them ina box and then we're saying You've got to think out the box. So why were theyin the box in the first place? Is my question the point? I'm just gonna I'm lovinggoing on this journey with you. So you you've got the parents sort of sunnyonside. They're prepared to give you the year. How did you get the teacherson board? Because you're absolutely right. Teachers, true, have been thefront, all knowledge. They impart information. They may be Childrentested a bit with them. They regurgitate it, they capture it on DH.Then when they have a question, it's hands up and asked the teacher, it'snot Find the answer myself, although way also have a lot of three beforemean rules. You have to ask three fight three ways before me, but lots ofschools don't even have that. So how did your teachers react what you think.Well, I think even now they think I'm a kind of a crazy principle. But thewhole idea's if you want to learn, you...

...have to try something new. Otherwiseyou're still rooted. You're trying to master something which is outdated. Youknow, I you must have heard the storey of the Children. Take a bridge. Haveyou heard the storey? Please tell Mae well there is a bridge built in theHonduras. The hundreds in Central America had a notorious reputation for storms andtsunamis and natural disasters. So the people of the hundreds wanted to builda bridge, a really solid branch that would withstand the stones that takeplace in the region. So they contracted a Japanese firm in 96 to build thisbridge. And the bridge was built in 98. It was a marvel of engineering anddesign. And the 100 people was so excited they drove from one side to theother, admiring the bridge. Two months after the bridge was constructed. Ah,Hurricane Mitch struck the region and 7000 people died. In just about fourdays. They received 75 inches of rainfall equivalent to what theyreceive in six months and you can say everything was wiped out the roadsleading to the bridge. We'll wiped out. All the bridges were wiped out exceptone Detroit take a bridge over the river. But there was a problem when the riverbroke its banks and wiped out the roads. The bridge was still standing, but theriver moved its channel and now it flowed by the side of the bridge. Sohere was this marvel of engineering. So there's a fantastic metaphor fordisruption. We've created this beautiful bridge, a model off ourcurricular framework on were clinging on to it on. We will do little bits onthat. We modify it. We'll talk in a bit of innovation. We put in a bit ofcreativity, but we won't give up on life bridge but the river. The problemhas changed its course altogether, and we're not keeping our eyes on theproblem. So we're building bridges that are meant to last forever. But todayyou need a bridge that will adapt. That will move with the problem on oureducational requirements and changing. But be as educators are clinging to thewhat we know, clinging to that model of engineering, reluctant to give up thatcurricular framework. That kind of assessments which no longer hold goodin today's world. So why I had to tell teacher storeys I had to get on boardaround 20% of my very core team. Oho bought into my vision on who said hewere here were willing. We we agree with you. We think there's apossibility there that we can make this change on DH. It is those that courteen who worked with me and we never...

...gave up because we we believe that thisis going to happen. And I always believed that if you want to make achange, you've got to be transparent and you have to communicate veryclearly where we're headed because they couldn't see. That's why you need aleader. The leaders sees ahead whether the people with you cannot see and Ihad that vision, I knew that the river had changed its course. I knew that weneeded to move the bridge. We would otherwise would be a bridge to nowhere.Education is going nowhere if they don't change that bridge. So youintroduced this nine years ago Yes. Give me the headlines of what that'smeant for your young people, your 5000 young people. It was a completelydifferent way of learning. They they began to collaborate. They brought intheir devices on over a period of four or five years. All my Children bringtheir own devices to school. And I'm talking about right up to great tokindergartners and grade one get their devices in school. But wait 2 to 5.Bring the devices. Of course, parents said, they break the devices, they losethe devices. It's so funny that after one year I never even heard such acomplaint because Children became responsible. They looked after theirdevices. They brought them charged to school. They had new platforms on whichto interact. The engagement became higher. And when Children are engaged,the truly learning that teachers were the same. But the motive transactionwas different. The kind of assessments were not, you know, write down ananswer. Children who refused to do math problems was sitting. I was an enddoing, you know, adaptive learning. It was a motive, blended learning. Therewas still no opportunity to write still opportunity into debate and createstoreys, and I always told the parents, It's like, you know, they carried that,what they call an instrument box with for geometry, you know, with all theircompasses and their projectors and other instruments. I said, You pick outan instrument when you need it. You bring the device. You're not taking thegeometry box and drawing circles with the compass right through the day. Wetake the device and use it when it's required. So that sense than theparents began to understand. They realise that in watch Children are nottested to the screen all the time. And I did get another thing because I knewthat much as I explained, they won't understand until they see it. So we didanother very bold step, which is now action research case study in HarvardGraduate School of Education. We opened...

...our doors. We call it open, does. And Isaid you can come in after signing up for a recession of your child. You cancome and sitting in the class and watch your child, okay? And after thatsession, you please give us a feedback on what you think is inappropriateabout the less what you think is damaging the child. What you think thechild is not doing. Please come in and sit in and see the lesson. The teacherswere a bit sceptical at first. This ad will come in and they will make us gomad. They're going to complain. So I asked the teachers, How many of yourbrave enough to allow parents to come in to see your sessions on? A fewteachers said, Okay, I said, OK, you don't have to let them go into thesession by their child is studying. Let them go into another section. So thepattern scheme They watched the learning. They never knew that todayyou learn in different ways strategies, a different methods different, and theypraise those teachers inordinately. So the teacher suddenly said, Well, ifthey're praising me, maybe I should have them in my own class. So theybegan to call their old parents and and soon everybody said, If she can do it,so can I. The parents are not being critical. They're actually appraisingthe teachers the same. You do a wonderful job. Our Children arelearning. And after about 23 months, parents who came in and saw 23 sessions.They just said, We know you're doing the right thing. We know our Childrenon safe and we know they're learning And their visits were less frequent bythe end of the year. Usually, we've characters on for the last six years.Every year we have around 3000 to 4000 parents coming in to see lessons in theclass. And even during the pandemic, people said, How can we continue openthose? I said. We can continue opened those. We will do it vertically now ifyou're in kindergarten. You sought other classes in kindergarten. Let themsee how great one child learns. Great, too, And a great tree and a great forAndre will see the reason for having to educate the child in our school becausethey will see the progression. And so we didn't biting them. Now, just beforeyou're going to tell me a bit more about that, we're getting some digitaldelay. I wonder who we turned off our cameras. We might get a bit better.WiFi. Let's give it a go. It's miserable not to be able to see you,but can you still hear? May? Yes, back in here. Let's try that and just see ifthat improves Arkan activity a bit. You were talking about how you did verticalopen classrooms for parents. Can I just cheque your in the pandemic? Youliterally took everything online and the Children were still collaboratingand learning at home. Yes, you know,...

...collaboration happens only if you givethem opportunities to collaborate. So if you give them assignments of taskswhich allow them to, you know, collaborate with each other. Soinitially we had a little difficulty convincing parents to allow Children todo this on their own time. The collaboration happening not withteachers supervision. So parents were a little worried where the Children wouldOh, you know, do something during the time when they're not supervised. ButChildren had already become very familiar. They used a very safe ofportal, which we have for Jen's education. So there was no question ofthem and not being, you know, being able to do some things you're notsupposed to do. But we give them opportunities to work together, toshare ideas, to create projects and then come back and present them inclass during the pattern and not work very well. This is for the olderChildren between ah, your group 3 to 5 because I haven't needed a great fightit as the primary. And so with the little ones Now with ahope that I suppose because they'd already started his devices, they werequite used to using them. So were they able to communicate with that? Isthewhile sat at home? Yes, what we did. Additionally, to improve thecommunication, we broke up the class into smaller groups. So the teacher didwon synchronous lesson Andi, during the asynchronous time, even though it was asynchronous thie teaching assistant, was available to monitor them if theyneeded help with any of their learning. So when the number of Children becamefew of the contact with the teacher increased on, the teacher and studentwere ableto talk, and the teacher could get students to respond to each other,comment on Pierre's work, share their thoughts and respond to their peers. Sothat worked well, with the number of students becoming smaller and smallergroups really trusting. There was some research done, very sort of top levelresearch about students that had felt the most engaged with their learningduring the pandemic on DH, someone that really virtually no learning and noconnective ity right up to those people who daily PRA vision and the studentsreported the highest levels of satisfaction were all young people whohad been set self directed task, self learning and collaboration with theirpeers, as well as just, you know, as opposed to just getting content fromthe teachers. So that's really interesting that you've managed tocreate this environment on, then, just able to seamlessly continue it duringthe pandemic. I think you know, you have teachers andstudents more credit on more freedom to...

...operate when everything is prescribed.People worry about failing on. I keep telling them mistakes must be a partofthe are learning culture, whether it's the teacher or the student. Ifeverything is prescribed, there's no one who will take that step in adifferent direction because they're always worried about getting it wrong.And so I encourage mistakes and I encourage dissent. Both are permittedin my school, whether it's the child or the teacher, and when you give themthat kind of environment, that's where I'm saying education must go. We mustbe brave enough to allow those who worked with us to explore, just likeChildren do Children of fearless and as adults. And as we grow older with lessOh, you know, confident about exploration, getting it right. Wewanted to stick with the tried and tested, so I feel that that kind of anenvironment must be created if we have to be successful with learning newthings in the future. So for your pupils who have been with you, you'vehad now a whole cohort go through from right from Orchid Garden to graduatingfrom you in year five? Yes. What? What do you feel that they up contemporaries?Immortal school happens. What have they taken onto the next stage of learningwhat they've gone out with more holistic education. They are veryarticulate. From the Children I saw when I entered the school who couldbarely speak and phrases. They're not native speakers of English. They wereall able to articulate the thoughts. Their vocabulary has increasedimmensely because they've got opportunity to speak in class byChildren, speak with one another teacher's allow Children to speak. It'snot a teacher directed lesson where the teacher's talking on the time, so thathas resulted in Children who are articulate, who are very skilled withthe use of technology beyond the, you know, a normal 10 year olds capacity tooperate technology. Children in my school also study tolerance andgenerosity and the curriculum. They study climate literacy on ourcurriculum because our curriculum is more a bespoke one centering aroundthings that are happening around the child. I don't think we're doing a goodjob off. Just, you know, teaching Children what is there, which isprescribed because I find the curriculum which is prescribed verylimiting for the Children. We train them for work, maybe be trained them tobe successful academically. But we don't train them in citizenship. Wedon't train them to be, you know, resilient. We don't train them to bekind and charitable, and eventually I...

...think what is more important forChildren to have a ZA base is good, strong set of values that make themgood citizens in the world. So much of the curriculum centres around thingsthat interest them that's happening around them in the world and thereforethey're able to relate toward my teaching. I just I mean, I am reallyblown away by what you're saying because it's so chimes with my ownthinking. But I also think it shows with what Spice and I love that youknow that push on, really looking at tolerance, generosity, citizenship.Looking at the things around you. How is my world being affected by climatechange on that really enquiring based, I think is amazing, but would alsostands at if you take it on a pure academic measure. If these Children'slike hurry spoken English literature, they is actually sounds to me like it'scoming out higher than in conventional learning. Where would you put thingslike maths and science? Do you think your pupils graduate on a higheracademic level than their contemporaries? What would yourthoughts on that day? Absolutely, you see, when you give Children Childrenhad engaged in learning. So it's not that if you learn about you knowsomething that's happening around the world, that they're not using math andscience. In fact, they use math and science in a more relevant contextualway than just learning it in their books. If you tell them, you know, findout around the restaurants and find out which is the most wasted item. Theywent out and they did a survey, and they found out that Rice has thrown outin large amounts and restaurants around the school. They spoke to them about,you know, the not wasting food. They did A, you know, analysis off what kindof food items are stored and refrigerators. How long do they last?So there's a lot of application of math and science that go into these projects or in this kind of learningthat is not conventional. But Children become adept at using. I have nothingagainst content. I think content on application are both required becauseyou need to know in order to apply. But at the same time, it shouldn't just becontent being spewed out in the manner that the teacher has just taught them.When we give them content that content should be applied in some contractualmanner. So when they keep using that content, they become good at knowledgeas well as the skill. And that's really interesting as wellin terms of this point about content, because one of the criticisms is that if youjust let go, you know, research on the Internet. They'll get fake content fromyour saying you're doing help. Children actually understand what fake news isand what propaganda looks like. So...

...they're actually learning to bediscerning consumers of modern technology. Does that sound right?Absolutely. You know, there's lots to do with technology, and as you begin touse it, you need to teach them ethics. You need to teach them how to, you know,distinguish between fake news and real news. They should become morediscerning unless you use it. How will you teach them, you know, maybe teachthem about plagiarism. We teach them, just don't copy things off. We teachthem things Children learn when they go to university. We teach themreferencing. We teach them, giving credit to somebody. If you takematerial from elsewhere, we tell them that you must learn paraphrasing all ofthese things only would come into play when you submit a dissertation orsomething of a higher order. When you are taught that in ah, higher level inschool. But his Children, No. Yes, I can take this idea, but I need toacknowledge that idea, and I need to part of phrase it and I need toreference it, then they they're they're written. Work also becomes richerbecause now they truly using thoughts and adapting them to their needsbecause I think no true idea is really, really original. In its sense, it'sit's existed somewhere. Somebody sees it, takes it and then changes it aroundand present it in a new way. Whether it is in the movies or in storey writingor art, you will find that you have to be inspired by somethingand that has already existed. It just doesn't come. People say imagination.But imagination, too, is filled with things that we've encountered ourimagination doesn't is not a vacuum. It's filled with experiences. It'sfilled with things that we've come into contact with. So we draw from it and wetake that and we combine it in different ways, and that's whatcreativity is about. But when you're taking materials and if you're takingmaterial directly from the Net, you need to acknowledge so these areopportunities are Children are getting because we're using technology absolutely, and giving them that thatgiving them the skills to become genuinely digitally literate, whichconventional teaching just achieve the moment Yes, you know it. They dosomething called common sense media. They know how to be safe on theInternet. They know what is, you know, fake news. They know how to behave, theethics of interacting with one another on the Internet to be giving peopleelect on on the Internet. So there's lots of things that shouldn't havelearned over the years. They want proficient. When they started, theymade a lot of mistakes, and teachers have to reiterate many things and rulesseveral times over. But as the Children...

...grow, they're more of digitallyliterate now. And they know how to operate in the digital world. That's just And how have you had eso?Maybe the Children who did three years with you nine years ago? They will nowbe sitting there here and school exams. Have you been able to track how thisincredible fact mission has impacted on those sort of stand tests that they getus? They get older. The testing is you know, once you teachChildren to be critical thinkers and to make connexions, it really doesn't go.It's like riding a cycle. I launch it when I was standing. I haven't you know,use a cycle ever again. Even if I'm 15 and I pick up the bicycle, I couldstill write it because I know how to maintain that balance. So Children whohave learned the ability who have developed the ability to thinkcritically it's a skill like swimming and riding. They're able to apply it inwhatever contexts they're challenged in their schools. Sothey're actually well ahead of the game. Some of them in some schools that theygo to don't feel particularly challenged because some of the teachersare, you know, who still resorting to the old methods of teaching. But I would say that we've equippedthem. We've given them that base from which they can draw, and they cantransfer the skills that they've learned at our school, in whateversituation they find themselves like animate. But some of your pupils, it'sextremely disappointing if they end up in a very traditional school for thesecondary phase of their learning, I mean, I can imagine that they just feelthey're challenged, you know, I always tell them that wecan help them to be learners. You know, once you learn how to learn it doesn'tmatter where you go. You can be in the traditional set up. You can be in avery, you know, authoritarian kind of set, hierarchicalset up pitches. You learned this, but if you have learned how to learn, thenyou can use all off those skills to learn wherever you are. And that shouldbe the purpose of education to teach Children how to not how to retainknowledge, how to research, how to apply their learning. And if you givethem enough of that, we've given them for seven years there with us. Theylearn these skills off, how to learn how to become independent, how to beindependent thinkers, how to question how to dissent respectfully. So they doask a lot of questions. Where did they go? And I teach myself. And when I gointo great fours and fives and I hear young Children are talking aboutconflict resolution and compromise, and I'm really pleased to know it's intheir vocabulary, be they understand...

...what we're talking about. That's just wonderful, isn't it? Onwhat skills tohave to take on into life. So do you have ambitions to getinvolved in doing a similar thing in secondary or is primary your passion? Iwould teach. I would stay bloom wherever you're planted. Whatever youget, make the best of it. What I'm doing right now is I had theopportunity to attend Cop 25 in Madrid on DH. I'm very passionate aboutclimate literacy, So the group has nominated me as the executive leaderfor climate change education in Jen's group of schools, which are around 50and number here on DH. I am hoping to put a climate literate teacher in everyclassroom, in gems and around the world. I think the pandemic was coming. People didn't believe in it.The climate change is real. It will be on our doorstep before we know it. Andwe need to do teach Children resilience. We need to teach them how to co we'redestroying the world, and we're not giving them the skills to cope withthat change with which they must live. So I'm going to be running a, umConference of Parties Exposition in a probe on October 24th on U N Day on.I've invited some young trial activists to speak at the conference, andChildren are going to debate climate change for the first time in schools.Oh, that's amazing. And is that going to be schools from around the world? Atthis moment? I have restricted It is the first time we're doing it. So wehave done. We have about 38 40 schools in the but I'm going to stream it world,right, Because this is giving me an opportunity to open the conference forChildren to view it worldwide and maybe the next year. You know, when I knowthat this is going well, we're going to involved world because this is the wayweaken that you get the world and I, as an educator, have a greaterresponsibility because I know what I'm saying. I believe in this. And if Ihave something, I consider that we're all like rivers. You know, you are aconduit for information and knowledge. You shouldn't be saying I should keepthis to myself because, you know, this is ah, you know, intellectual property.I believe that only when you give away you will get more because you won't bestagnant like a pool. You should be like the river. So I encourage myteachers to share best practise. In fact, we have been selected as one ofthe top 100 schools in the world Education Week, which will be betweenOctober 5th and ninth to share best practises. And some of the things I'dbe talking about this boat I shared with you because I think when peoplehear storeys and storeys are powerful,...

...they have the courage then to do whatyou have attempt off. Well, I shall certainly be tuninginto both of those events. Teo. Here you again and I'm profoundly left withthis image of the river having changed course on our educations systems,standing there is to know where on I think I waited for what? What we needto build that new bridge to look at in terms of the digital learning skills.It's the first time I've heard the word climate literacy on. We definitely needa climate curriculum on how we can use that applied learning to really coverthe whole curriculum. It's been at Italy in a rush, So thank you so much for your time on DHfor sharing with me what you're doing. And I'm sure our listeners they'regoing Tio definitely want to get onto your website to see a bit more aboutwhat's going on, so I'll make sure that's on the link. The Pharaoh MarchAsher Alexander had really brilliant talking to you. Thank you, Jenna. It'sa pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episodeof Third Millennium Education. I'd like to know what has been your biggesttakeaway from this conversation. If he did enjoy this episode, do hit thesubscribe button to continue to receive future episodes. If you would like to be interviewed oryou know somebody who would be good to interview, please also get in touch. Ihope you'll join me on the next episode. And together we can carry on theconversation to ensure that we can best meet the needs of Third MillenniumLearners employers in the country. Thank you again and see you on the nextepisode.

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