Third Millennium Education
Third Millennium Education

Episode 14 · 1 year ago

Hezron Brown, Founder of More Talk More Action

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Hezron Brown, Founder & Director of More Talk More Action, Ambassador of The Prince's Trust and Business Owner of Beyond Belief

“Concentrate on the subjects that are important and will benefit you moving forward.”

“Nowadays, teachers are trained to identify the needs and tackle issues met by young people but it is still not put into practice.”

“Teachers could not concentrate on helping the students because of their heavy workload.”

“Caring and believing from educators is vital in one's life.”

“Serious problem with our education system is that young people feel like they're not looked after, or that the education system doesn't care about them.”

“With mentoring, we help build that relationship between the young people, the parents and the school. To ensure young people are getting the best education that they can.”

“Believe, be confident and invest in yourself.”

I'm delighted to be hosting this podcast. Third Millennium Education. It's a collection of thoughts and inspirations of stakeholders within education. What is education for? On who is it serving? This's a podcast exploring state mandated education, its relevance impact and how it can best meet the needs of third millennium learners. Employers on the country. My interview. Exciting people who have had direct experience of education, Whether you are a parent, training to be a teacher, a policy maker and academic or an education innovator, nobody working attack There will be something for you. I'm your host, Zanna hopes Hez Ron Brown An absolute delight to welcome you to the third Millennium Podcasts, which is a Siri's of thoughts and reflections on education from both the personal on people's professional. Sometimes perspective has won your the founder of more talk and more action. You're also princes trust ambassador on the winner of the Pride of Britain. I believe so. Congratulations on all those achievements. I'm really looking forward to talking to you about education. Yeah, yeah. No, I think we can have some good conversations around this. Definitely. Excellent. So let me just start when I brought out. Now tell me a little about your personal experience of education and what it was like for you at school on. Then let's talk a bit more about your thoughts in general and how impacts on young people to die, I think ferment for myself. Growing got education. Wasn't something that I took seriously again. A lot of my behaviour in school was very disruptive as well on I think the teachers at that time didn't really know how to deal with my attitude and the way that I was a young person. Andi, I think because of that reason, my educational background especially like when it came to education I didn't really care about. I didn't really think that the teachers cared about really as well. So I think when it comes to education, my background of it wasn't the best. Wasn't the best? No, no. Hunter. Did you leave with qualifications? Did you not leave with them? Have you gone and got any? Yeah. I mean, I left school with, like, barely minimal Jesus is like I had, like, these and use again. Even in my exams. I didn't even really pay attention. I was messing around for most we got kicked out some of them like it wasn't the best experience for me. I don't know. I think it was just because, like again when I was younger education, I never really thought that I needed education. I always fought in my head like our I'll just be whatever I wanna be. I'm just gonna do whatever I want and I'm gonna be that person. Obviously, I was totally wrong because that's not how it is. So yes, When I left school, I went back into education like winding down college. But then I got kicked out of college as well in my first year. So again, that didn't really last. But it was only when I was around 21 22. That's when I realised...

Actually need education. Obviously, my background. After living a life of crime from the age of like 50 and onwards, I realised when I was 21 22 when I was making that change in my life that actually education was important for me to get certain jobs are needed certain qualifications. So that's when I took it upon myself to redo my education. I redid my English a mass I don't courses to help build me up as a person, like building my character. So I think in that kind of aspect, that's what helped me the most. What sort, of course is Did you go to Dio? What do you think? We're the ones that really helped you? The courses that I actually went and done where things like confidence building employability, skills, presentation skills, like interview techniques, learning how to conduct yourself in a manageable way again from a background, you know, from being in the gang and all that kind of stuff. I was very unapproachable, but then when I started doing those courses, it made me approachable, and it made me see that actually, I wasn't a bad person. I did have certain qualities to myself that work would and that employers would like. So I started to play under strips. But I think the education that I was receiving in school hasn't played any part in the life that I live now. So there's nothing you can look back from your school in your, which sounds like quite troubled path for schooling on. Actually think that's helpful now? No, None of those lessons that I have done has stayed any pie my adult life now like you, when I kind of think about you know, things like design and technology like BT. I don't do nothing. That's design technology. Like right now, art. I don't do anything that are based right now, P, I don't do anything. That's you know you know. I mean, I don't encompass any of those things that I was doing in school in my daily life now, so don't be wrong. If I was to go with some professions, maybe they would have helped me and I don't deny that. But I haven't gone into the same profession so naturally, all the things that I did learn when I was at school haven't benefited me now so that all those years of learning those things, they haven't benefited me right now. They haven't played any part in my life right now, as I said she was. Those courses things like confidence building things like employability skills. Those are the things that helped me. Those are the things that still help me now in the work that I do obviously going into schools, speaking to young people. I need that confidence. I need to know how to conduct myself, how to speak properly, those things for me personally that have a bigger impact. So where you are now, going in and talking and you talk to thousands of young people a year when you're going in and talking to young people. Two questions, I think. Let's start with what you're telling them about education and what they need to know what they what you think is genuinely helpful. And then I'd like to hear a bit about what they're telling you about their education experiences. Yeah, I think so. When I go back and I speak...

...to the young people are you always say to them obvious new education is important because education is important, things like English and maths and all that kind of stuff. Like I say to them, Those are the things that you need, you know, like those of the things that especially we're looking to get a job. Those are things that are more prevalent. Those who think that employers look for things like English, a masculine things like that. If you're going into a specific role into a specific job role, then naturally, there will be office subjects that will hold a lot of weight as well. But at the same time, there are some that will never have any effect on your day to day life when you get older. So I kind of state, you know, concentrate on the ones that are important to you. Concentrate on the ones that you know are gonna benefit you moving forward. So make sure that you do know what you want to be when you're older. You do know what kind of profession you want to go into again when you're going to college getting into university. What are those courses? I get them to think a bit more in detail about where they see themselves in the future rather than where they see themselves at that moment in time. But I never deterred them away from their grades are just naturally I wouldn't ever do that. I always stayed put 100% effort and, you know, make sure you get your good grades in all your areas, but concentrate more on the areas that you know I'm gonna finish you moving forward when they're speaking to me about their education again, I kind of get the same kind of response is that even when I got when I was younger, just like it's a mandatory thing, isn't it? Like education is something that's some people feel that is forced upon them even again around certain studies around certain grades. They just feel like I was forced to do P. I was forced to do arts. I was forced to do that designs energy. I was forced to do science. But again, none of those things are benefited them later on in life. And I think one of the biggest things as well that I speak about with young people at the moment is teachers not really caring about the young people. So teachers are just going to school to them. They're just going to work on the for a teacher there just goingto work on. I think a lot of young people just see as that they just see, as are my teachers just here because they're working. I'm actually here because they care about us. They're not actually here because they want to see her succeed that actually here because they want to see us prosper and grow and they actually trying to educate us a lot of people to see, as are my teachers just here for work, my mate. They're just getting paid and we're just getting paid, like that's all they're here for. And in some aspects, that is the truth. In some aspects, that isn't the truth. I think it always depends under teacher and depends on the person. I won't lie under a lot of schools that I've got into. A lot of the teachers that have seen their priority isn't the young people, and they'll make it clear they will say, You know, our I've got fairy students in my class. Why my concentrating on one student and it's like her, Okay, But maybe that one student might be the one that actually makes a difference out off the rest of the fairy studios that your teacher, you know, I mean, because even when I think about it with myself, I was that young person that the teachers gave up on. No one really done anything with me. No one really wanted to see me prosper. No one really wanted to see me...

...succeed. But yet still out of most of the majority of the people in my group. I'm one of the people that are now what's up in life. So I went to my old school that I used to go. Teo Andi. I remember it so clearly, and I stepped in on one of my old teachers were still there. She looked at me and the first thing she said was, Oh, has one. I thought you was in prison. I said Party, she said. Before he was in prison, I said he told you that I was in prison. She said, Oh, I don't know what I'm sure Hedi under great vine I was like, No, no, no, I mean, I'm at Buckingham Palace. Instead, I just walked away from it on, like again. I thank you for her. It was like that shock. Like what? Like you know, and there's Steven. Certain teachers that follow me on Instagram linked in and stuff like that on, you know they will drop me a message and they'll say his room. We would have never have expected you to do the things that you're doing now because of the young person that you used to be, and it's like getting into their headlights. People grow, you know, change like you're not gonna be that same person forever, you know? I mean, I think again it's for it's for teachers to understand that that person that you're teaching right now, they might go on to do big, big, big things. But maybe at that moment in time, that probably isn't the best time for them. You know, I mean, so I think it's a bit of a difficult one again, like with young people, I think they just feel like their needs aren't being met like how they need to be met when they're at school. Went about college. And I think that they feel that certain teachers don't really care about them. I think in speaking up for some teachers, I'm sure a huge proportion of teachers do care. But I wonder if there is this disconnect and I've talked to a few people on here and for example, Matthew Gold talks a lot about meeting empathy and compassion within our our education system on DH. Other people have talked about needing a different curriculum that is very much more focused on developing a lot of the skills that you talked about. You went on to get in college, whether that's how you communicate or how you problem. So for creativity on, lots of people have talked about different things. One of the things that I'm quite aware ofthe knowing a bit of bad your life background is that you have some pretty traumatic incidences in your childhood. I wonder if we put sufficient attention into making sure that our teachers and the people you have our direct contact with the young people in schools are actually aware about how you work with somebody who's experienced trauma on how you support enabled. But I wonder if you fell in your childhood whether there were any teachers who really recognised that perhaps traumatic things were happening to a home on that you're facing some pretty adverse situations or whether you felt you would just sort of a number going through the system and you were just a bit of a pain in the neck. I think he was. It was that, you know, I was just...

...that young person that was in the system. I was one of a number on. I was just again, the one that was always causing trouble, you know, well, Then again, I think by what you said there was that one teacher there was that person that looked and said, Has one You know, you do mean cow. Let's try and find that out for you. But that was one teacher. It wasn't all of them. It was one that believed in saw something in me that could be nurtured. So I think especially like now, I think because of all the things that are happening in the world, obviously, you know, youth, violence, all that kind of stuff. There's been certain measures that have been put in place to where teachers are receiving the training that they need to tackle those issues and to help identify a lot more sooner. We have young people are going through those difficult times. And yes, that training is being put in place within again just because that training is being put in place. Does that mean that that teachers actually taken in just because that teacher attended that course or attended that programme? Are the expert on that now? No, again, This isn't a tick box, isn't it? It's just for a school to turn round and say, Oh, you know all of our staff are trained and identifying the needs or identifying those situations. What do they actually put it into practise, Or do they just go back to the classroom and carry on with their day today on DH? To be fair, probably some of them just They're attend the training and they really go over their head because again, their workload is so big that they don't really have the time to really do that. And again, that's where we come back to. They've got for students in the class. They can't just concentrate on one. They have to concentrate on all Fae. Then again, he just becomes more of a job rather than actually your helping these young people to grow. You're the reason why these young people will get the grades that they're getting because it's coming from you from what you're teaching them. So, yeah, it's a bit of a difficult one. I think it just comes down to that person personally on DH. I think a school can put all those different things in place, But will the teachers do it? So when did you first start getting into trouble at school? It was the first time that you got a detention or you start getting into trouble. How old were you? But I got kicked out of primary school, so I was, like, seven six. You'd actually already broken down with education by the age of seven. Yeah, but by, like, 678 years old, I was when I got kicked out of my first primary school. And then I went to another promise. I was having fights with the teachers in my first primary school. That's why I got kicked out at one of them into my second primary school. Had a good relation with the teachers. They're actually finished that primary school there. Um, so again, I've been having those difficulties from an early age in education. Well, even though it's having those difficulties from an early age, nothing was put in place for me to prospect that second primary school when you have good relationships. What was making a difference? There weren't...

...fighting with the teachers that you have been year before. In a previous primary school, it was more like myself. There was a change in my attitude that could be him. Anything he could have been the way the teachers were speaking to me again. I was still young, but at that time I was developing a really bad anger problem. So it was just the way the teachers with dealing with me, dealing with certain situations, they were kind of like just shutting me to one side. Obviously they I thought, like especially at my Prime Minister, they care. They didn't care about me there in my education on my upbringing. But then when I started secondary school, yeah, I got kicked out of my first secondary scores. Keep my first secondary school to fight him, and I went to my second secondary school on DH. I finished my second at secondary school. I finished that, but again, there was only certain teachers that believed in me. Not all of the teachers there there was only certainty into that believed in me. And I think those specific teachers were the ones that were influencing Deal this to keep me in the school, and then I you know, I eventually finished. But I think especially now when I speak to young people, there's been situations where a young person's moved to like four different schools, four or five different secondary schools. They get in managed, moved every two seconds, you know, And it's like, What is that system like? How is that gonna benefit that young person? Why doesn't anybody care at that school for the young person? Why is it just that they get a detention or they misbehave? Okay, we don't need that young person. Now let's manage, move them and send them to a pupil referral unit. But then you're sending that young person to a pupil referral unit. But their education level isn't at pupil referral unit stage, you know, is Pastor. So when they're there, they're feeling like they're being devalued. You know, they've been in the classroom to be master, do anything plastic. And it's like, What? Why am I doing t Plus two when my mathematics is at a higher level? So it's like, you know, our schools come back in the right way When it comes to detentions, when it comes to manage moves when it comes to exclusion, our school's actually doing the right thing, you know? Are they identify in the issues correctly? Are they working with not just the young king? What the parents, as well because again, this is where a lot of those issues come from, right? The home life. So how is their home life, I think is it comes back to what you said that are people identifying these issues earlier with these young people? Are they identifying these issues when it's a lower stage rather than when he is at the highest stage? If that young person isn't getting the right upbringing from home, why isn't the school than interjecting in that young person's home Life on DH? Better in their home life? One helping apparent. How can the young person making them grow together to make that young person's education bear? And did you feel that with your own home life, was there much interaction with the schools and your home life?...

No. I would say it was just more letters home. They were just sending those of letters to my mom about how I was disruptive in lesson or if I was getting a detention. Or she needed to come in to speak about my behaviour well over then, that there was no how there wasn't any help that the school was offering. It was just more to slate me Tamala, you know. So again, I think that's something that schools could do. But a lot of people would then turn around and say, But it's not the school's place to do that. Some people might turn around saying it's not the school's place to put those things in place That's down in apparent to look for those things. So again it's like it's quite a hard time is quite a hard conversation. I think I think it is. But we do have safeguarding procedures in all schools that are specifically designed to try and be able to identify if a young person's home life is really causing them to struggle on, then to be able to intervene in that circumstance. But quite often, if you're having difficulty a home on all you're getting is negative messages from the school's. It actually just makes the home life more difficult, more difficult. And as you said, that then spills into the whole management situation because the dialogue between the school and apparent and the young person is broken down. It's no good. So because of that reason, then the school give up, but then the parent gives up. But in the young person gives up a swell. Then I was the enemy of a situation last year where a boy no longer goes to school is at the school, but he doesn't go to school. He just stays at home on the school, are now communicating with the mom to try and get him back into school. But he just keeps going around saying no. But then the mom doesn't want to bring him back to school because every time he goes back to school, he has a confrontation with a teacher. So then now he's in gaol 11. He's exams are coming up, and now the school is like, Oh, we need to get you back into school so that you could do your exams and the mom's like, But you don't really care about him. You just wanted to come back into school so that he can do his exams just so that he's another number. Well, you know, on your sheet. But throughout that whole year, you haven't actually cared about him. You haven't cared about him coming back to school. You know that dialogue hasn't really been there, have allowed him to stay at home until the last minute until the last minute until they need him to come in. Just that you could do his exams so I can understand them when it comes to like parents and those disagreements and why young people feel like they're not looked after Ward at the education system. They don't care about them because, as we said at the beginning, they are just another number. The artist another number to that school because once that person leaves, the next year, 11 students will come up and then it's all about them. So how do we then change that to making it where all of these young people matter? I think there's a lot happening in education and there are brilliant schools and then there are schools there are struggling. But I think it is that, you know, perennial problem of how we make sure that each young person, those in...

...the school, that they're valued on, that the system actually has faith in what they can achieve. But I think some schools do that very well, and they recognise that every young person has the potential to do something brilliant. There may not be doing something brilliant today but they will get there on then. There are some schools that are still obviously, and your own experience speaks to that, really struggling to do that. So tell me a little bit about what you do with more talk, more action that actually supports young people who maybe are currently experiencing challenges with their school. What's your organisation on the bags. So we we off mentoring. We provide mentoring and lived experience talks, I think, from a lived experience. Torre aspect. We talk about again, the education, the ring in with Anna's well, how life's spiralled out of control. You know a lot of the mentors that we have a lot of people that deliver their lived experience. They have had a troubled upbringing. They've had a troubled past. They probably haven't had the best education. So then we try and show these young people. Actually, you need your education and you need these certain qualifications. You need peace and things behind you to build you up as a person to build up your character, but also to not get involved in the situations that are happening out there in the world. On with the mentoring again, it's the same kind of thing. We try and help the young person get back on track. We try and build that relationship between the young person under school because a lot of young people that we mentor, they are again being pushed to the side because their behaviour is bad or, you know, they're very antisocial. So the school are trying to get them back on track. So we want weed and work with the young people. We work with the parents. We work with the school to help build back up that bond toe where it's a good relationship and that young person is getting the best education that they can. And we offer over certain types of programmes as well. So we do things around and I said, like confidence building, playability, techniques, business, like creating your business like lifestyle programmes because one thing that I saw when I was at school and even though I see now school to put any more in place. But it's not embedded in the education. Young people aren't tour just about life like how to survive. How do you survive out there? Yes, English Maths and Science and Arts and our religious education and physical education. Yeah, I know all those things are cool, but what about just life? How do we open a bank account? If I want to get a mortgage on, we'll get a mortgage. How do I save money? How do I open up a business? How do I run a business? How do I turn the washing machine? How do I make my bed? Like people might think that these are just standard things. But these are things that not a lot of young people know. Obviously, for myself, I put my own self into that. I was kicked out when I was 11 years old. I've got my first flat when I was 15. Yeah. I lived...

...on my own ever since I was 15 years old. When I was 15 years old. I didn't even know how to work a washing machine. I didn't even know what to buy. When I went shopping, I was going shopping, food, shopping. I mean, Audi walking around. And I don't even know what to buy because I don't have to cook. You know, I don't know how to do none of these things, but I wasn't getting taught those things when I was at school, we'll get you by just that curiosity, biscuits and crisps, biscuits, crisps and sweets because that was all that I knew about it. So that's what I was eating for my dinner was he increased. So my dinner. But if there was more education around those things, like, you know, how do you make a meal? How do you make a substantial meal like, How do you work, order these appliances that you've got in your house? I didn't even know that I had to pay war until I got a debt in there for like, £200 back, dated from like four years because I hadn't paid my water bill and I was like, You have to pay for water. I never knew you had to pay for water for water was free for When you turn the tap on you, just it's free. But no, you have to pay for that. But again, those are things that you're not talk about it in school. But those are the things that matter, because at any point a young person can be thrusted into that life, and they have no education around those things. So again hear about mortal direction. That's what we try and provide. We provide them with those life skills, how to survive out there in the world. And I think schools should be embedding that in the education because these are things that young people need to know. You people need to know that, you know. So you've got sort of markets of things there that you are trying to do and more talk, more action. But also you think I need to be happy Mainstream schools. You talked a lot about that sort of employment ready. You talked a lot about that actual basic transactions of life, whether that's registering with a GP or paying a water bill. And then there were the practical sort of support yourself being able to cook, knowing how to socialised. I was very struck with something you said earlier that you actually had to go to college in almost learned your manners because you've been in a gang and you weren't quite sure how you communicate on. Then I'm really struck by this piece that you talk around, which I think you've also talked about total direction doing, which is actually how you build up your confidence and your self esteem so that you feel a real sense of value. And it's interesting that I absolutely agree that it is essential that young people told to read and write basic numeracy how to communicate. But I think that then there are a lot of things that I may be less content and subject base, like the things that you've mentioned that could be really useful. So what's the storeys and backgrounds? Are you hearing from the young people that you work with now? Are they similar to yourself? Or are they one of the sort of issues that the young people you work with? What issues are they facing? A lot of the young people are facing what a scene issues...

...that I was facing when I was growing up broken homes, not really good relationships with parents or guardians. Some are young carers, so you know, they're taken on that responsibility off the household. And I think again that falls back into what we were talking about earlier in regards to you know, these people don't even know how to pay bills. We're yet still there, given the responsibility to look after their own parents, so dead and managing the household. But they don't even know how to manage the household correctly. But yet still, we expect them to manage the household. Yeah, let them to be a young carer without the necessary support and without the necessary education behind them, and be able to do that. But again, a lot of the young people like it is difficult because these young people, they need support. And then I get in the right support on DH. They don't feel like the education is back in them, and the thing that they need is backing them. Naturally, they are kind of saying that they need the things that were providing confidence build in all of that stuff. They recognise that those are things that are more important moving forward than education. So young people that I speak to there like now I'm not going to uni and these are young people from your 11 and then turn around and say, now I'm not going to college or I'm not going to, you know, rather do an apprenticeship, and I think that's one of the biggest things that young people are talking about now because they're realising that. Why would I spend another six years and education going to college, going to university building, not dead toe working a job that I've never even done at uni, for instance, What I mean by that I've got friend he on the law degree. He works in an Audi. What's that doing from now on? That speech like, bro, you've got a law degree and he's like, Yeah, I know, man. But you know what? I don't even want to go into law. And I'm like, you was at university for all that time doing your law degree, and he was like, Yeah, I know. But now I don't even want to do that. Now I don't want to do that no more. So now you've just wasted a majority of your life in education to get that degree. Actually, now you realise that that's not even what you want to do anymore. The only thing that we need to further grow our kind of vocational skills than our non academic offer to young people and I was in a school a few well before the pandemics of over a year ago, now talking to young people who were sharp as tacks, really bright. Doing their A levels came from quite challenging backgrounds on. They had the opportunity to both topflight universities to study engineering on all of them. There were seven of them on. All of them were picking to do an apprenticeship, you know, it was a top flight company on. They knew that they could actually stay with that apprenticeship and come out with a qualification at the end of it. That was as good as a degree. But from the backgrounds that they came from, they actually would be earning money is they did that no accruing debt. So I can certainly understand where you're saying that that experience is true for some of your friends and the young people that you're working with. I...

...think young people right now, their main of it's the society that we live in. It's very money driven. Young people these days are very materialistic. If you was asked a young person, would you rather work a 9 to 5 job and get money? Or would you rather do something illegal and get quick money? A majority of those young people will say I would rather do something illegal and get quick money than working 9 to 5. Because they see more value in getting quick money rather than building that money up over time. And that's just the kind of day and age that we live in. You were in a gang. You were getting that quick money. What was the turning point for you, Where you decided? I mean, I can't imagine that you and you know what you potentially could have learned through life crime. But I also don't imagine you're only working 9 to 5. Looking at what you're doing now. I imagine you're working 18, 20 rounds that run, you know, you're really putting it in. So what made that switch? Hey, what was the trigger being? Well, I stopped because I used, you know, I'll be honest with you. I used to sell drugs on DH. There was a lot of money in it, and there's a lot of quick money in it. But there's a lot of dangers to me as well. Like every two minutes, you looking over your shoulder that you happen to dodge the police, you're always scared. You're always on edge because you think you are someone watching me. Someone Someone followed with me like the police drive past. And you get anxious because you think he's out for if they was to stop right now and stop me. You know, I've got a bag of weed on me or, you know, I got a bag of coke on me, like you know, I'm gonna be going to prison for yes. Andi, I start selling drugs because of that reason, I got tired of feeling anxious and being scared of walking. Just doing Monday today. Well, even then, I was putting in the hours I was putting in hours when I was seven. Drugs, I say the people selling drugs is like a business. It's a business structure. You have to have that business structure in place for it to be able to be prosperous. And it's got the same exact components as an actual business. You've got clients. You've got to do your roadmap in. You've got to do your money management. You can't have the product. You gotta know how to sell the product. So you think you've got to have sales skills, you have communication skills, budget in skills. There's things that these young people don't even realise that they have. But for myself I just realised as well I was contributing to people killing themselves winner when I obviously I'm contributing to people harm in their health. And I was like, You know, that's not something that I want to be a part of any more and that was one of the turning points for me. I was just like, No, I can't I can't be a part of this. I can't be a part of people harming themselves because even though yes, I was in the gang get my headspace was all over the place. I still had models and I was like, I don't want to be that guy. I was seeing people O d and I was like, Wow, I will be the first time I've seen someone OD and I was just stood there and I was like Oh my gosh, that's actually that's because of me And it was because of the drug that I gave them and it's like now I...

...can't do it anymore and that's when I kind of stepped away from that Life was like now it's not worth it but again with young people. That's what we try and show them. We say to them, Look at all the dangers, though. Yes, you might be getting that quick money, but if you was to get court tomorrow or that money's being seized, so then what you gonna do when you're in prison? I know that money's been seized all that time and effort that you put in to build up that money has now gone. So then it was wasted. When you can just work a job, do a job and you can actually get that same amount, probably obviously over a certain period of time if you saved on don't things correctly, but at least then you're doing it the legal way, and you're not having to watch over your shoulder every two minutes. And it's about getting the young people into that head space off. Actually, no, let me go down the legal route rather than going down the illegal over. And you mentioned, you know, helping young people recognise the skills that they got so maybe not learnt in a traditional way. But they're still skills that you can use in a traditional business, but also I think there is that piece about actually helping young people recognise that even if their life experiences have been very difficult, they're incredibly valuable life experiences. And you've learned resilience. You burnt down back to learn to be incredibly organised. You've learned a whole range of skills that actually can apply in multiple circumstances. So it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you on DH. I just like to sort of finished by giving you the opportunity, Tio, What would be your top three pieces of advice for young people today? What's the hell is wrong way my top three. I think my top free would just be like you believe in yourself. Believe in yourself. Be confident within yourself on DH, I think Invest in yourself as well. I think investing yourself be confident within yourself. I remember the first that way. Believe confidence on invest. I think those are the three things that young people should within themselves. Like those are the three things that I instilled within myself to bring me to the place that I am today. I believed in myself. I made sure that I use that confidence, you know. I mean like when I'm speaking to, people are made sure that I came across how I wanted to come across. I didn't try and be someone else. I was myself also, I invested in myself as well so that investing comes in what we were talking about earlier. Like doing the courses, get in my education, back up to scratch where I fought, it was needed or what I felt was necessary to help rebuild and even like creating the businesses that I have. You know, I invested in myself to want to get myself to that place to that level where I can give back and help others. So, yeah, this is about young people...

...recognising those skills within themselves, recognising those three attributes and I think young people will be they will have a clear direction of where they want to go. You have been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, but I'm sure that the young people who come to more talk more action, get really valuable support from your team on DH. Your team of mental on you keep up the great work. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Third Millennium Education. I'd like to know what has been your biggest takeaway from this conversation. If you did enjoy this episode, do hit this subscribe button to continue to receive future episodes with this lasts. If you would like to be interviewed or you know somebody who would be good to interview, please also get in touch. I hope you'll join me on the next episode, and together we can carry on the conversation to ensure that we can best meet the needs of Third Millennium Learners employers in the country. Thank you again and see you on the next episode.

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