Third Millennium Education
Third Millennium Education

Episode 14 · 7 months ago

Hezron Brown, Founder of More Talk More Action

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Hezron Brown, Founder & Director of More Talk More Action, Ambassador of The Prince's Trust and Business Owner of Beyond Belief

“Concentrate on the subjects that are important and will benefit you moving forward.”

“Nowadays, teachers are trained to identify the needs and tackle issues met by young people but it is still not put into practice.”

“Teachers could not concentrate on helping the students because of their heavy workload.”

“Caring and believing from educators is vital in one's life.”

“Serious problem with our education system is that young people feel like they're not looked after, or that the education system doesn't care about them.”

“With mentoring, we help build that relationship between the young people, the parents and the school. To ensure young people are getting the best education that they can.”

“Believe, be confident and invest in yourself.”

I'm delighted to be hosting thispodcast. Third Millennium Education. It's a collection of thoughts andinspirations of stakeholders within education. What is education for? Onwho is it serving? This's a podcast exploring state mandated education, itsrelevance impact and how it can best meet the needs of third millenniumlearners. Employers on the country. My interview. Exciting people who have haddirect experience of education, Whether you are a parent, training to be ateacher, a policy maker and academic or an education innovator, nobody workingattack There will be something for you. I'm your host, Zanna hopes Hez Ron Brown An absolute delight towelcome you to the third Millennium Podcasts, which is a Siri's of thoughtsand reflections on education from both the personal on people's professional.Sometimes perspective has won your the founder of more talk and more action.You're also princes trust ambassador on the winner of the Pride of Britain. Ibelieve so. Congratulations on all those achievements. I'm really lookingforward to talking to you about education. Yeah, yeah. No, I think wecan have some good conversations around this. Definitely. Excellent. So let mejust start when I brought out. Now tell me a little about your personalexperience of education and what it was like for you at school on. Then let'stalk a bit more about your thoughts in general and how impacts on young peopleto die, I think ferment for myself. Growing got education. Wasn't somethingthat I took seriously again. A lot of my behaviour in school was verydisruptive as well on I think the teachers at that time didn't reallyknow how to deal with my attitude and the way that I was a young person. Andi,I think because of that reason, my educational background especially likewhen it came to education I didn't really care about. I didn't reallythink that the teachers cared about really as well. So I think when itcomes to education, my background of it wasn't the best. Wasn't the best? No,no. Hunter. Did you leave with qualifications? Did you not leave withthem? Have you gone and got any? Yeah. I mean, I left school with, like,barely minimal Jesus is like I had, like, these and use again. Even in myexams. I didn't even really pay attention. I was messing around formost we got kicked out some of them like it wasn't the best experience forme. I don't know. I think it was just because, like again when I was youngereducation, I never really thought that I needed education. I always fought inmy head like our I'll just be whatever I wanna be. I'm just gonna do whateverI want and I'm gonna be that person. Obviously, I was totally wrong becausethat's not how it is. So yes, When I left school, I went back into educationlike winding down college. But then I got kicked out of college as well in myfirst year. So again, that didn't really last. But it was only when I wasaround 21 22. That's when I realised...

Actually need education. Obviously, mybackground. After living a life of crime from the age of like 50 andonwards, I realised when I was 21 22 when I was making that change in mylife that actually education was important for me to get certain jobsare needed certain qualifications. So that's when I took it upon myself toredo my education. I redid my English a mass I don't courses to help build meup as a person, like building my character. So I think in that kind ofaspect, that's what helped me the most. What sort, of course is Did you go toDio? What do you think? We're the ones that really helped you? The coursesthat I actually went and done where things like confidence buildingemployability, skills, presentation skills, like interview techniques,learning how to conduct yourself in a manageable way again from a background,you know, from being in the gang and all that kind of stuff. I was veryunapproachable, but then when I started doing those courses, it made meapproachable, and it made me see that actually, I wasn't a bad person. I didhave certain qualities to myself that work would and that employers wouldlike. So I started to play under strips. But I think the education that I wasreceiving in school hasn't played any part in the life that I live now. Sothere's nothing you can look back from your school in your, which sounds likequite troubled path for schooling on. Actually think that's helpful now? No,None of those lessons that I have done has stayed any pie my adult life nowlike you, when I kind of think about you know, things like design andtechnology like BT. I don't do nothing. That's design technology. Like rightnow, art. I don't do anything that are basedright now, P, I don't do anything. That's you know you know. I mean, Idon't encompass any of those things that I was doing in school in my dailylife now, so don't be wrong. If I was to go with some professions, maybe theywould have helped me and I don't deny that. But I haven't gone into the sameprofession so naturally, all the things that I did learn when I was at schoolhaven't benefited me now so that all those years of learning those things,they haven't benefited me right now. They haven't played any part in my liferight now, as I said she was. Those courses things like confidence buildingthings like employability skills. Those are the things that helped me. Thoseare the things that still help me now in the work that I do obviously goinginto schools, speaking to young people. I need that confidence. I need to knowhow to conduct myself, how to speak properly, those things for mepersonally that have a bigger impact. So where you are now, going in andtalking and you talk to thousands of young people a year when you're goingin and talking to young people. Two questions, I think. Let's start withwhat you're telling them about education and what they need to knowwhat they what you think is genuinely helpful. And then I'd like to hear abit about what they're telling you about their education experiences. Yeah,I think so. When I go back and I speak...

...to the young people are you always sayto them obvious new education is important because education isimportant, things like English and maths and all that kind of stuff. LikeI say to them, Those are the things that you need, you know, like those ofthe things that especially we're looking to get a job. Those are thingsthat are more prevalent. Those who think that employers look for thingslike English, a masculine things like that. If you're going into a specificrole into a specific job role, then naturally, there will be officesubjects that will hold a lot of weight as well. But at the same time, thereare some that will never have any effect on your day to day life when youget older. So I kind of state, you know, concentrate on the ones that areimportant to you. Concentrate on the ones that you know are gonna benefityou moving forward. So make sure that you do know what you want to be whenyou're older. You do know what kind of profession you want to go into againwhen you're going to college getting into university. What are those courses?I get them to think a bit more in detail about where they see themselvesin the future rather than where they see themselves at that moment in time.But I never deterred them away from their grades are just naturally Iwouldn't ever do that. I always stayed put 100% effort and, you know, makesure you get your good grades in all your areas, but concentrate more on theareas that you know I'm gonna finish you moving forward when they're speaking to me about theireducation again, I kind of get the same kind of response is that even when Igot when I was younger, just like it's a mandatory thing, isn't it? Likeeducation is something that's some people feel that is forced upon themeven again around certain studies around certain grades. They just feellike I was forced to do P. I was forced to do arts. I was forced to do thatdesigns energy. I was forced to do science. But again, none of thosethings are benefited them later on in life. And I think one of the biggestthings as well that I speak about with young people at the moment is teachersnot really caring about the young people. So teachers are just going toschool to them. They're just going to work on the for a teacher there justgoingto work on. I think a lot of young people just see as that they just see,as are my teachers just here because they're working. I'm actually herebecause they care about us. They're not actually here because they want to seeher succeed that actually here because they want to see us prosper and growand they actually trying to educate us a lot of people to see, as are myteachers just here for work, my mate. They're just getting paid and we'rejust getting paid, like that's all they're here for. And in some aspects,that is the truth. In some aspects, that isn't the truth. I think it alwaysdepends under teacher and depends on the person. I won't lie under a lot ofschools that I've got into. A lot of the teachers that have seen theirpriority isn't the young people, and they'll make it clear they will say,You know, our I've got fairy students in my class. Why my concentrating onone student and it's like her, Okay, But maybe thatone student might be the one that actually makes a difference out off therest of the fairy studios that your teacher, you know, I mean, because evenwhen I think about it with myself, I was that young person that the teachersgave up on. No one really done anything with me. No one really wanted to see meprosper. No one really wanted to see me...

...succeed. But yet still out of most ofthe majority of the people in my group. I'm one of the people that are nowwhat's up in life. So I went to my old school that I used to go. Teo Andi. Iremember it so clearly, and I stepped in on one of my old teachers were stillthere. She looked at me and the first thing she said was, Oh, has one. Ithought you was in prison. I said Party, she said. Before he was in prison, Isaid he told you that I was in prison. She said, Oh, I don't know what I'msure Hedi under great vine I was like, No, no, no, I mean, I'm at BuckinghamPalace. Instead, I just walked away from it on, like again. I thank you forher. It was like that shock. Like what? Like you know, and there's Steven.Certain teachers that follow me on Instagram linked in and stuff like thaton, you know they will drop me a message and they'll say his room. Wewould have never have expected you to do the things that you're doing nowbecause of the young person that you used to be, and it's like getting intotheir headlights. People grow, you know, change likeyou're not gonna be that same person forever, you know? I mean, I thinkagain it's for it's for teachers to understand that that person that you'reteaching right now, they might go on to do big, big, big things. But maybe atthat moment in time, that probably isn't the best time for them. You know,I mean, so I think it's a bit of a difficult one again, like with youngpeople, I think they just feel like their needs aren't being met like howthey need to be met when they're at school. Went about college. And I thinkthat they feel that certain teachers don't really care about them. I thinkin speaking up for some teachers, I'm sure a huge proportion of teachers docare. But I wonder if there is this disconnect and I've talked to a fewpeople on here and for example, Matthew Gold talks a lot about meeting empathyand compassion within our our education system on DH. Other people have talkedabout needing a different curriculum that is very much more focused ondeveloping a lot of the skills that you talked about. You went on to get incollege, whether that's how you communicate or how you problem. So forcreativity on, lots of people have talked about different things. One ofthe things that I'm quite aware ofthe knowing a bit of bad your lifebackground is that you have some pretty traumatic incidences in your childhood.I wonder if we put sufficient attention into making sure that our teachers andthe people you have our direct contact with the young people in schools areactually aware about how you work with somebody who's experienced trauma onhow you support enabled. But I wonder if you fell in your childhood whetherthere were any teachers who really recognised that perhaps traumaticthings were happening to a home on that you're facing some pretty adversesituations or whether you felt you would just sort of a number goingthrough the system and you were just a bit of a pain in the neck. I think hewas. It was that, you know, I was just...

...that young person that was in thesystem. I was one of a number on. I was just again, the one that was alwayscausing trouble, you know, well, Then again, I think by what you said therewas that one teacher there was that person that looked and said, Has oneYou know, you do mean cow. Let's try and find that out for you.But that was one teacher. It wasn't all of them. It was one that believed insaw something in me that could be nurtured. So I think especially likenow, I think because of all the things that are happening in the world,obviously, you know, youth, violence, all that kind of stuff. There's beencertain measures that have been put in place to where teachers are receivingthe training that they need to tackle those issues and to help identify a lotmore sooner. We have young people are going through those difficult times.And yes, that training is being put in place within again just because thattraining is being put in place. Does that mean that that teachers actuallytaken in just because that teacher attended that course or attended thatprogramme? Are the expert on that now? No, again, This isn't a tick box, isn'tit? It's just for a school to turn round and say, Oh, you know all of ourstaff are trained and identifying the needs or identifying those situations.What do they actually put it into practise, Or do they just go back tothe classroom and carry on with their day today on DH? To be fair, probably some of them just They'reattend the training and they really go over their head because again, theirworkload is so big that they don't really have the time to really do that.And again, that's where we come back to. They've got for students in the class.They can't just concentrate on one. They have to concentrate on all Fae.Then again, he just becomes more of a job rather than actually your helpingthese young people to grow. You're the reason why these young people will getthe grades that they're getting because it's coming from you from what you'reteaching them. So, yeah, it's a bit of a difficult one. I think it just comesdown to that person personally on DH. I think a school can put all thosedifferent things in place, But will the teachers do it? So when did you firststart getting into trouble at school? It was the first time that you got adetention or you start getting into trouble. How old were you? But I gotkicked out of primary school, so I was, like, seven six. You'd actuallyalready broken down with education by the age of seven. Yeah, but by, like,678 years old, I was when I got kicked out of my first primary school. Andthen I went to another promise. I was having fights with the teachers in myfirst primary school. That's why I got kicked out at one of them into mysecond primary school. Had a good relation with the teachers. They'reactually finished that primary school there. Um, so again, I've been havingthose difficulties from an early age in education. Well, even though it'shaving those difficulties from an early age, nothing was put in place for me toprospect that second primary school when you have good relationships. Whatwas making a difference? There weren't...

...fighting with the teachers that youhave been year before. In a previous primary school, it was more like myself.There was a change in my attitude that could be him. Anything he could havebeen the way the teachers were speaking to me again. I was still young, but atthat time I was developing a really bad anger problem. So it was just the waythe teachers with dealing with me, dealing with certain situations, theywere kind of like just shutting me to one side. Obviously they I thought,like especially at my Prime Minister, they care. They didn't care about methere in my education on my upbringing. But then when I started secondaryschool, yeah, I got kicked out of my first secondary scores. Keep my firstsecondary school to fight him, and I went to my second secondary school onDH. I finished my second at secondary school. I finished that, but again,there was only certain teachers that believed in me. Not all of the teachersthere there was only certainty into that believed in me. And I think thosespecific teachers were the ones that were influencing Deal this to keep mein the school, and then I you know, I eventually finished. But I thinkespecially now when I speak to young people, there's been situations where ayoung person's moved to like four different schools, four or five different secondaryschools. They get in managed, moved every two seconds, you know, And it'slike, What is that system like? How is that gonna benefit that young person?Why doesn't anybody care at that school for the young person? Why is it justthat they get a detention or they misbehave? Okay, we don't need thatyoung person. Now let's manage, move them and send them to a pupil referralunit. But then you're sending that young person to a pupil referral unit.But their education level isn't at pupil referral unit stage, you know, isPastor. So when they're there, they're feeling like they're being devalued. You know, they've been in the classroomto be master, do anything plastic. And it's like, What? Why am I doing tPlus two when my mathematics is at a higher level? So it's like, you know, our schools come back in the right wayWhen it comes to detentions, when it comes to manage moves when it comes toexclusion, our school's actually doing the right thing, you know? Are theyidentify in the issues correctly? Are they working with not just the youngking? What the parents, as well because again, this is where a lot ofthose issues come from, right? The home life. So how is their home life, Ithink is it comes back to what you said that are people identifying theseissues earlier with these young people? Are they identifying these issues whenit's a lower stage rather than when he is at the highest stage? If that youngperson isn't getting the right upbringing from home, why isn't theschool than interjecting in that young person's home Life on DH? Better intheir home life? One helping apparent. How can the young person making themgrow together to make that young person's education bear? And did youfeel that with your own home life, was there much interaction with the schoolsand your home life?...

No. I would say it was just moreletters home. They were just sending those of letters to my mom about how Iwas disruptive in lesson or if I was getting a detention. Or she needed tocome in to speak about my behaviour well over then, that there was no howthere wasn't any help that the school was offering. It was just more to slateme Tamala, you know. So again, I think that's something that schools could do.But a lot of people would then turn around and say, But it's not theschool's place to do that. Some people might turn around saying it's not theschool's place to put those things in place That's down in apparent to lookfor those things. So again it's like it's quite a hard time is quite a hardconversation. I think I think it is. But we do have safeguarding proceduresin all schools that are specifically designed to try and be able to identifyif a young person's home life is really causing them to struggle on, then to beable to intervene in that circumstance. But quite often, if you're havingdifficulty a home on all you're getting is negative messages from the school's.It actually just makes the home life more difficult, more difficult. And asyou said, that then spills into the whole management situation because thedialogue between the school and apparent and the young person is brokendown. It's no good. So because of that reason, then the school give up, butthen the parent gives up. But in the young person gives up a swell. Then Iwas the enemy of a situation last year where a boy no longer goes to school isat the school, but he doesn't go to school. He just stays at home on theschool, are now communicating with the mom to try and get him back into school.But he just keeps going around saying no. But then the mom doesn't want tobring him back to school because every time he goes back to school, he has aconfrontation with a teacher. So then now he's in gaol 11. He's exams arecoming up, and now the school is like, Oh, we need to get you back into schoolso that you could do your exams and the mom's like, But you don't really careabout him. You just wanted to come back into school so that he can do his examsjust so that he's another number. Well, you know, on your sheet. But throughoutthat whole year, you haven't actually cared about him. You haven't caredabout him coming back to school. You know that dialogue hasn't really beenthere, have allowed him to stay at home until the last minute until the lastminute until they need him to come in. Just that you could do his exams so Ican understand them when it comes to like parents and those disagreementsand why young people feel like they're not looked after Ward at the educationsystem. They don't care about them because, as we said at the beginning,they are just another number. The artist another number to that schoolbecause once that person leaves, the next year, 11 students will come up andthen it's all about them. So how do we then change that to making it where allof these young people matter? I think there's a lot happening in educationand there are brilliant schools and then there are schools there arestruggling. But I think it is that, you know, perennial problem of how we makesure that each young person, those in...

...the school, that they're valued on,that the system actually has faith in what they can achieve. But I think someschools do that very well, and they recognise that every young person hasthe potential to do something brilliant. There may not be doing somethingbrilliant today but they will get there on then. There are some schools thatare still obviously, and your own experience speaks to that, reallystruggling to do that. So tell me a little bit about what you do with moretalk, more action that actually supports young people who maybe arecurrently experiencing challenges with their school. What's your organisationon the bags. So we we off mentoring. We provide mentoring and lived experiencetalks, I think, from a lived experience. Torre aspect. We talk about again, theeducation, the ring in with Anna's well, how life's spiralled out of control.You know a lot of the mentors that we have a lot of people that deliver theirlived experience. They have had a troubled upbringing. They've had atroubled past. They probably haven't had the best education. So then we tryand show these young people. Actually, you need your education and you needthese certain qualifications. You need peace and things behind you to buildyou up as a person to build up your character, but also to not get involvedin the situations that are happening out there in the world. On with thementoring again, it's the same kind of thing. We try and help the young personget back on track. We try and build that relationship between the youngperson under school because a lot of young people that we mentor, they areagain being pushed to the side because their behaviour is bad or, you know,they're very antisocial. So the school are trying to get them back on track.So we want weed and work with the young people. We work with the parents. Wework with the school to help build back up that bond toe where it's a goodrelationship and that young person is getting the best education that theycan. And we offer over certain types of programmes as well. So we do thingsaround and I said, like confidence building, playability, techniques,business, like creating your business like lifestyle programmes because onething that I saw when I was at school and even though I see now school to putany more in place. But it's not embedded in the education. Young peoplearen't tour just about life like how to survive. How do you survive out there?Yes, English Maths and Science and Arts and our religious education andphysical education. Yeah, I know all those things are cool, but what aboutjust life? How do we open a bank account? If I want to get a mortgage on, we'llget a mortgage. How do I save money? How do I open up a business? How do Irun a business? How do I turn the washing machine? How do I make my bed?Like people might think that these are just standard things. But these arethings that not a lot of young people know. Obviously, for myself, I put myown self into that. I was kicked out when I was 11 years old. I've got myfirst flat when I was 15. Yeah. I lived...

...on my own ever since I was 15 years old.When I was 15 years old. I didn't even know how to work a washing machine. Ididn't even know what to buy. When I went shopping, I was going shopping,food, shopping. I mean, Audi walking around. And I don't even know what tobuy because I don't have to cook. You know, I don't know how to do none ofthese things, but I wasn't getting taught those things when I was atschool, we'll get you by just that curiosity, biscuits and crisps,biscuits, crisps and sweets because that was all that I knew about it. Sothat's what I was eating for my dinner was he increased. So my dinner. But ifthere was more education around those things, like, you know, how do you makea meal? How do you make a substantial meal like, How do you work, order theseappliances that you've got in your house? I didn't even know that I had topay war until I got a debt in there for like, £200 back, dated from like fouryears because I hadn't paid my water bill and I was like, You have to payfor water. I never knew you had to pay for water for water was free for Whenyou turn the tap on you, just it's free. But no, you have to pay for that. Butagain, those are things that you're not talk about it in school. But those arethe things that matter, because at any point a young person canbe thrusted into that life, and they have no education around those things.So again hear about mortal direction. That's what we try and provide. Weprovide them with those life skills, how to survive out there in the world.And I think schools should be embedding that in the education because these arethings that young people need to know. You people need to know that, you know.So you've got sort of markets of things there that you are trying to do andmore talk, more action. But also you think I need to be happy Mainstreamschools. You talked a lot about that sort of employment ready. You talked alot about that actual basic transactions of life, whether that'sregistering with a GP or paying a water bill. And then there were the practicalsort of support yourself being able to cook, knowing how to socialised. I wasvery struck with something you said earlier that you actually had to go tocollege in almost learned your manners because you've been in a gang and youweren't quite sure how you communicate on. Then I'm really struck by thispiece that you talk around, which I think you've also talked about totaldirection doing, which is actually how you build up your confidence and yourself esteem so that you feel a real sense of value. And it's interestingthat I absolutely agree that it is essential that young people told toread and write basic numeracy how to communicate. But I think that thenthere are a lot of things that I may be less content and subject base, like thethings that you've mentioned that could be really useful. So what's the storeysand backgrounds? Are you hearing from the young people that you work with now?Are they similar to yourself? Or are they one of the sort of issues that theyoung people you work with? What issues are they facing? A lot of the youngpeople are facing what a scene issues...

...that I was facing when I was growing upbroken homes, not really good relationships with parents or guardians.Some are young carers, so you know, they're taken on that responsibilityoff the household. And I think again that falls back into what we weretalking about earlier in regards to you know, these people don't even know howto pay bills. We're yet still there, given the responsibility to look aftertheir own parents, so dead and managing the household. Butthey don't even know how to manage the household correctly. But yet still, weexpect them to manage the household. Yeah, let them to be a young carerwithout the necessary support and without the necessary education behindthem, and be able to do that. But again, a lot of the young people like it isdifficult because these young people, they need support. And then I get inthe right support on DH. They don't feel like the education is back in them,and the thing that they need is backing them. Naturally, they are kind ofsaying that they need the things that were providing confidence build in allof that stuff. They recognise that those are things that are moreimportant moving forward than education. So young people that I speak to therelike now I'm not going to uni and these are young people from your 11 and thenturn around and say, now I'm not going to college or I'm not going to, youknow, rather do an apprenticeship, and I think that's one of the biggestthings that young people are talking about now because they're realisingthat. Why would I spend another six years and education going to college,going to university building, not dead toe working a job that I've never evendone at uni, for instance, What I mean by that I've got friend he on the lawdegree. He works in an Audi. What's that doingfrom now on? That speech like, bro, you've got a law degree and he's like,Yeah, I know, man. But you know what? I don't even want to go into law. And I'mlike, you was at university for all that time doing your law degree, and hewas like, Yeah, I know. But now I don't even want to do that. Now I don't wantto do that no more. So now you've just wasted a majority of your life ineducation to get that degree. Actually, now you realise that that's not evenwhat you want to do anymore. The only thing that we need to further grow ourkind of vocational skills than our non academic offer to young people and Iwas in a school a few well before the pandemics of over a year ago, nowtalking to young people who were sharp as tacks, really bright. Doing their Alevels came from quite challenging backgrounds on. They had theopportunity to both topflight universities to study engineering onall of them. There were seven of them on. All of them were picking to do anapprenticeship, you know, it was a top flight company on. They knew that theycould actually stay with that apprenticeship and come out with aqualification at the end of it. That was as good as a degree. But from thebackgrounds that they came from, they actually would be earning money is theydid that no accruing debt. So I can certainly understand where you'resaying that that experience is true for some of your friends and the youngpeople that you're working with. I...

...think young people right now, theirmain of it's the society that we live in. It's very money driven. Youngpeople these days are very materialistic. If you was asked a youngperson, would you rather work a 9 to 5 job and get money? Or would you ratherdo something illegal and get quick money? A majority of those young peoplewill say I would rather do something illegal and get quick money thanworking 9 to 5. Because they see more value in getting quick money ratherthan building that money up over time. And that's just the kind of day and agethat we live in. You were in a gang. You were getting that quick money. Whatwas the turning point for you, Where you decided? I mean, I can't imaginethat you and you know what you potentially could have learned throughlife crime. But I also don't imagine you're only working 9 to 5. Looking atwhat you're doing now. I imagine you're working 18, 20 rounds that run, youknow, you're really putting it in. So what made that switch? Hey, what wasthe trigger being? Well, I stopped because I used, you know,I'll be honest with you. I used to sell drugs on DH. There was a lot of moneyin it, and there's a lot of quick money in it. But there's a lot of dangers tome as well. Like every two minutes, you looking over your shoulder that youhappen to dodge the police, you're always scared. You're always on edgebecause you think you are someone watching me. Someone Someone followedwith me like the police drive past. And you get anxious because you think he'sout for if they was to stop right now and stop me. You know, I've got a bagof weed on me or, you know, I got a bag of coke on me, like you know, I'm gonnabe going to prison for yes. Andi, I start selling drugs because of thatreason, I got tired of feeling anxious and being scared of walking. Just doingMonday today. Well, even then, I was putting in the hours I was putting inhours when I was seven. Drugs, I say the people selling drugs is like abusiness. It's a business structure. You have to have that businessstructure in place for it to be able to be prosperous. And it's got the sameexact components as an actual business. You've got clients. You've got to doyour roadmap in. You've got to do your money management. You can't have theproduct. You gotta know how to sell the product. So you think you've got tohave sales skills, you have communication skills, budget in skills.There's things that these young people don't even realise that they have. Butfor myself I just realised as well I was contributing to people killingthemselves winner when I obviously I'm contributing to people harm in theirhealth. And I was like, You know, that's not something that I want to bea part of any more and that was one of the turning points for me. I was justlike, No, I can't I can't be a part of this. I can't be a part of peopleharming themselves because even though yes, I was in the gang get my headspacewas all over the place. I still had models and I was like, I don't want tobe that guy. I was seeing people O d and I was like, Wow, I will be thefirst time I've seen someone OD and I was just stood there and I was like Ohmy gosh, that's actually that's because of me And it was because of the drugthat I gave them and it's like now I...

...can't do it anymore and that's when Ikind of stepped away from that Life was like now it's not worth it but againwith young people. That's what we try and show them. We say to them, Look atall the dangers, though. Yes, you might be getting that quick money, but if youwas to get court tomorrow or that money's being seized, so then what yougonna do when you're in prison? I know that money's been seized all that timeand effort that you put in to build up that money has now gone. So then it waswasted. When you can just work a job, do a job and you can actually get thatsame amount, probably obviously over a certain period of time if you saved ondon't things correctly, but at least then you're doing it the legal way, andyou're not having to watch over your shoulder every two minutes. And it'sabout getting the young people into that head space off. Actually, no, letme go down the legal route rather than going down the illegal over. And youmentioned, you know, helping young people recognise the skills that theygot so maybe not learnt in a traditional way. But they're stillskills that you can use in a traditional business, but also I thinkthere is that piece about actually helping young people recognise thateven if their life experiences have been very difficult, they're incrediblyvaluable life experiences. And you've learned resilience. You burnt down backto learn to be incredibly organised. You've learned a whole range of skillsthat actually can apply in multiple circumstances. So it has been anabsolute pleasure to talk to you on DH. I just like to sort of finished bygiving you the opportunity, Tio, What would be your top three pieces ofadvice for young people today? What's the hell is wrong way my top three. I think my top free wouldjust be like you believe in yourself. Believe in yourself. Be confidentwithin yourself on DH, I think Invest in yourself as well. I thinkinvesting yourself be confident within yourself. I remember the first that way. Believeconfidence on invest. I think those are the three things that young peopleshould within themselves. Like those are the three things that I instilledwithin myself to bring me to the place that I am today. I believed in myself.I made sure that I use that confidence, you know. I mean like when I'm speakingto, people are made sure that I came across how I wanted to come across. Ididn't try and be someone else. I was myself also, I invested in myself aswell so that investing comes in what we were talking about earlier. Like doingthe courses, get in my education, back up to scratch where I fought, it wasneeded or what I felt was necessary to help rebuild and even like creating thebusinesses that I have. You know, I invested in myself to want to getmyself to that place to that level where I can give back and help others.So, yeah, this is about young people...

...recognising those skills withinthemselves, recognising those three attributes and I think young peoplewill be they will have a clear direction of where they want to go. Youhave been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, but I'm sure that the youngpeople who come to more talk more action, get really valuable supportfrom your team on DH. Your team of mental on you keep up the great work.It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episodeof Third Millennium Education. I'd like to know what has been your biggesttakeaway from this conversation. If you did enjoy this episode, do hit thissubscribe button to continue to receive future episodes with this lasts. If youwould like to be interviewed or you know somebody who would be good tointerview, please also get in touch. I hope you'll join me on the next episode,and together we can carry on the conversation to ensure that we can bestmeet the needs of Third Millennium Learners employers in the country.Thank you again and see you on the next episode.

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