Third Millennium Education
Third Millennium Education

Episode 11 · 8 months ago

Kathleen Hamilton, Head of Product at Genius U

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Kathleen Hamilton is Head of Product at GeniusU. She talks about her educational experience at Green School, Bali. GeniusU, is an edtech platform transforming education for life long learners.

“At Green School students are not segmented by age, but by what they want to learn and how competent they were at any given subjects.”

“Green School has this openness and this curiosity that didn’t exist in a lot of other schools. That is what turned me into very much believing in activism as a means of making change.”

“Ageism is just a cultural idea. Vertical learning totally got all of us together, there was never a question of, ‘I am more intelligent than this person because I am older’, instead we are open to learning a subject differently, at the same pace at the same time.”

“People that are different from us whether that is in background, nurture, nature or whatever, can teach us more than we can possibly imagine, because everyone has a different worldview.”

“When I tell how brilliant my high school was to other people, they would look at me like I was an alien. They do not think that you could enjoy High School. And that is what hit me first, there is definitely something wrong with the system, if there is a system where students feel like they would not do it again.”

“Learning should feel exciting and inspiring.”

“The more people can engage in active learning, the more people can understand how to think through difficult concepts and how to actually problem solve through a process.”

I'm delighted to be hosting thispodcast. Third Millennium Education. It's a collection of thoughts andinspirations of stakeholders within education. What is education for? Onwho is it serving? This's a podcast exploring state mandated education, itsrelevance impact and how it can best meet the needs of third MillenniumLearners. Employers on the country by interview exciting people who have haddirect experience of education. Whether you are a parent, training to be ateacher, a policy maker and academic or an education innovator, nobody workingattack. There will be something for you. I'm your host, Zanna hopes. Welcome tomy podcast. I'm delighted that this time I'm talking to Kathleen, who isthe head of product at Genius You, which is an Ed Tech company that isrevolutionising the education industry. But she's also, interestingly, analumni of the green School in Thailand. So I'm sure will touch on both of those.Kathleen Welcome. Thank you for agreeing to join me. Thank you so muchfor having these on. It's a pleasure to be here. Let's start. Generally, justtell me a bit about your education experience, whether that's in whatyou're doing now. Well, when you were at school. Yeah, definitely. So Isuppose I will stop earlier on at the beginning. So my my education growingup wass I went to a number of international school, so I grew upoverseas born in the UK, but grew up overseas with globetrotting parents on.So I was exposed to a few different schools growing up. But the one that Ispent the most time at was the green school in Bali. I ended up there when Iwas just finishing middle school, so I would have been going into high school,which means I would have been howled what I would have been. Probably. Ithink that's like 14 or 13 or 14. Andi, I was there then until I graduated fromthe green school and, interestingly, my co hole into my class. There were 13 ofus, and we were the first graduating class of the green school in Bali, Sothe green school was founded in whole. I think it was 9 4008 on it was founded by John andCynthia Hardy, who wanted a different kind of education for their Children,and they had moved out to Bali in such of something different in their lives.They founded an amazing jewellery company. They started delving intobuilding with bamboo, and they actually built the green school to be a schoolfor their daughters on. Of course, it attracted a number of people fromaround the world, including my parents. We were already living in Bali at thetime, but the green school as it started coming into existence. Myparents heard about that, and I heard about that. And I really wanted to seewhat it was all about because it claimed to be a different kind ofeducation. And I have been in an international school on the island fora few years, and I was feeling jaded when I was in the Ivy Systems, theinternational baccalaureate, and I just was not excited about my studies. Iwasn't excited about the school I was...

...at on. My parents were very open toother ideas, so they sent me off to the green school and I walked in on myfirst day on DH. There were just these magnificent bamboo buildings and all ofthis green, lush space and little of the jungle and all these, you know,feral Children running around barefoot. And I walked into my classroom, whichwas open air and like mud floors. And like this gorgeous bamboo architectureon DH, I remember seeing my classmates all kind of wearing what they wanted.Hair looked like all different shapes, colours, sizes, races, backgrounds likewe had such an interesting group of students. And I sat down and I was like,I don't ever want to go back to a normal school like I can't imaginesitting in a box again. And I did. My high school had my whole high schoolexperience, and the green school graduated there, you know, had a we had,like a mud ceremony before we graduated. It was brilliant. And we, you know, hadso many amazing experiences over the course of the time I was there, andthen I went back to traditional school. I went to university in the US, a verytraditional liberal arts college on that was like a total 3 60 or 1 80 fromfrom the green school experience I had had. But I would say, of all myeducation experiences, Green School is the one that shaped me the most and nowI work in a text, so somehow I ended up in a technology company. But actuallygenius you. It's actually following very like very much the same principlesas green school except online. So bringing personalised education tostudents. We've started with adults and we're now creating the full lifelongcurriculum for students as well. That's all around allowing people to connectto their genius the thing that they're really got out, the thing that theylove to do and then learn from there how they use that to create value inthe world on whatever they do, whatever they choose to do, matching them withthe best people, the best events, the best education to be able to push likefurther than towards their goals in the world. So really exciting stuff anddefinitely my whole like the theme across my life. The thematic unit of mylife at this point is around education and really changing the way that we dothings because for sure, where the world's not got it quite right yet. Butthere are a lot of really cool companies that are doing similar thingsand who are approaching education in a different way now as well. Fantastic.Before we go into and I'm sure we will hear about those really cool Cos thatyou want Teo reference with us on. I do apologise that I put the green schoolin the wrong country going back to your time in the greenschool and how you felt that compared with a more traditional education, youtouched on the fact that it was a very different physical learning environment.What was different in the the actual learning, not just the environment.Yeah. So the learning was structured interestingly, because we were thefirst graduating class when I arrived at the green school, that was not highschool curriculum. So Well, there was no high school diploma accredited insuch a way that other schools around...

...the world would say, Yes, you'vegraduated from high school, so parents were taking a massive risk. Somethingkids that because if any of us wanted to go to university, we had to go anddo additional accreditations outside of high school. So what I ended up doingbecause my my parents were definitely in the camp of parents that wanted meto go to college on DH. So the agreement that I came to with them wasthat I would do British exams, so I would sit my i g C s C s. What thatmeant was I had to rally a group of other students who wanted the samething. So I physically had to go speak to my classmates and say, Hey, do youwant to go to university like we have to do exams? If you do want to go solike one of the subjects you want to do? We put together a group of us that wereinterested in actually, you know, having accreditations. The parents wereon board with us, and then we picked the subjects that matched enough of ourinterests that we could get teachers toe, understand the curriculum or thesyllabus for it. There were teachers coming in from all over the world,coming teacher green school, which was awesome. But they all had differentbackgrounds. So there were some international school teachers from theUS, some from Australia. Some of the parts of Asia, you know, there weresome from the UK, but actually very few. So choosing the UK curriculum proved tobe quite difficult on we then had to get the teacher's onboard and say, Look,we really want to do these exams because we know we want to go touniversity. Would you be up for learning the syllabus and then teachingit to us? Eh? So it was kind of an unconventional structure in that sense.And then, on the other hand, the actual, like green school structure itself forthe high school in middle school were the unit based learning so similar toehow universities and colleges do it now In high school, we were given asyllabus of potential. Cost is we could take in different subject areas. We hadto get well, son number of credits in each subject area in order to graduate.But we placed ourselves in those classes, and you have to have theprerequisites you had tio have done to get into certain crosses. But we weremingled, so I was taking when I was in, you know, 11th and 12th grade. I wastaking classes with ninth graders in the middle school. You had people crosspollinating across years because we want we want segmented by our age, weresegmented by what we wanted to learn and how competent we were at any givensubject. So there were students that was, you know, I was in a lower levelmath class because I really didn't like math. Not that much. But there werestudents much younger than me during much high level math studies becausethey were excited about it, wanted to do it, and we'll get it right on bythink that was a major difference in terms of like, structurally, theeducation. And then, on the other hand, we have experts and people from allover the world that would travel just because of the nature of the greenschool being the way that it was and being like such a centre of interest.There were folks that were travelling in from other places who were expertsin different areas who would come and like, teach and speak to us. And Iremember there was. Robert Swan was like Arctic adventurer who liked, cameand did lectures of those we had, like different guests. Every other month inthe class below me had Jane Goodall as...

...that commencement speaker theygraduation, so we we had so many characters that would come and speak tous and, you know, we had assemblies every week, but we got the whole schooltogether and, like, shared knowledge, and the younger students would dopresentations to the oldest student. So I think there was just this thisopenness and this curiosity that I think doesn't exist in a lot of otherschools. And I was so excited to go to school and don't get me wrong. Therewas still days where I was frustrated, but I was frustrated because there'ssomething that I wanted to change, and that's what turned me into Someone who,you know very much, believes in activism as a means of making changeand who doesn't have a problem, you know, challenging authority. And whowants to speak out about things that matter. Like all of those things wereinstilled in me because of my education on, I saw so many other young activistscome out of the school. I'm a really good example. Ah, two girls, twosisters who actually pushed the plastic bag ban in Bali, and it's, you know,they stopped at a company or a foundation called bye bye plastic bags.And now there's chapters all over the world of students who are actuallymaking a change against, you know, single use plastic in countries becausethese sisters decided that they've had enough of seeing Bali, you know,damaged by the plastic pollution. So and you know, there's a countlessothers who have turned out like amazing young activists who are out in theworld now educating other activists or standing up for what they believe in.And I think that it's the structure in the education of the freedom that wehad it green school actually pursue what we were passionate about, what wewere interested in. Our curiosity was fed rather than stifled. And that'swhat led to such an amazing cohort of alumni who were out in the world doingwhat they want and equally as much. There are plenty of students whograduated, not activists like it's not a school for activists per se right,But we were all encouraged to pursue what it was we were interested in,believed in. We were given the space to do that, and the resource is theydesigned curriculum around what we wanted to be learning. I rememberteachers asking us like, Do you have the choice of these units next term,Which would you be most excited about? And they would gauge interest from thestudents about what we wanted to learn. They would Taylor lessons to currentevents. I learned so much about elections, presidential elections,democracy around the world, you know, critical issues that were happening atthe time, different wars that were going on. It was all current arelearning. Didn't feel outdated as so much of the learning around the world,I believe, is that sounds amazing. I'm really captured by what you're sayingabout the sort of three key elements that I'm hearing there. One is thisvertical learning, which I think is really interesting. And I want to comeback to that too. Is this sort of foster and curiosity because curiosityis what makes you wanna learn makes you into a lifelong learner. On the thirdthing, this real personalisation of your learning Onda. Although you said alot, those are the three things that I'm pulling out. If I could go back tothose Teo, talk to me about that vertical learning what to you was thebenefit of having people older than you and younger than you studying in thesame it be known the same lesson in the...

...same coho. I think it really broke downconventional ideas of like, I think intelligence, I guess, is the way Iwould put it. This there's this. There's this ageism if you want to putlike a label on it. There's this idea that the people older than us outdatedin their thinking, and therefore there's only so much we can learn fromit from them. And the people younger than us don't have our experience, andtherefore there's only so much we can learn from them, right? And that'sthat's just like the cultural idea. And, like, I've you know, I've been inmeetings in boardrooms in Semin Oz, you know, even in the university where Iwas the youngest in the room and I remember feeling like I wasn't heard orI wasn't able Teo, get my point across because people were looking at my agefirst. On the other hand, I've been in classrooms with other folks where wewere the oldest in the room and there were people younger, and I've heardpeople talking about how they just don't know. There's no way they couldknow right but the vertical learning totally got all of us together. Therewas never a question of you know I'm or intelligent than this person becauseI'm older, you know. And instead I found that there were people muchyounger than me that we're teaching me so much about a subject because theythought about it differently. And there were people older than well, that's nottrue. We were the oldest class, but there were other people in my age group,you know, and we were learning at the same pace at the same time when we'dhad a lifetime of about the same age range to learn. But we still havedifferent experiences, right that allowed us to understand or takingknowledge differently. So I think that there's the more that we put, we areput in space is where we are around people that differ from us, whetherthat is in age, whether that is in background, whether that is in nurturenature, whatever people that are different from us teach us more than wecan possibly imagine, because everyone has a different world view, and the waythat were raised in the world that we live in is dependent on our personalexperience. So I think the more people are cross pollinating in that way, andI think the vertical learning with a great example of that. Also, we had asmall school. So the vertical learning allowed us to have larger class sizes,which, if we hadn't had that, you know, there would have been, I think, aslower pace to the learning. In some cases, were having a larger class sizeallowed us to do group activities, allowed us tow, you know, interact mohrand have a more hands on learning experience, which was really importantas well. But yeah, I think I think that there's a lot to be said about beingaround others that are not are not the same as you. And I mean in university,I went on toe. I think the university does this really well. Manyuniversities do they they do that. You know, you go into class is not based onyou're your age, but you're going to classes based on your subject ofinterest. Or you know what? You've qualified in your own learningbeforehand to be able to get into that car. So how you've tested in and Ithink that that's really good thing. And it baffles me why we don't do that,you know, in middle schools and high schools. Mohr. Because that I thinkthat we have an idea that we've created,...

...that people only learn of a certainpace on that certain ages need to stay together. And I just think that that'sreally old fashioned, certainly from your experience. And it's proved to beold fashioned on DH. I mean, I completely agree with you, and I'veseen schools that are, you know, even state funded schools that have takenthe view that it is actually the stage of your learning, not the agent you'reat that matters on. They've done different elements off that verticallearning, so that might be putting people in houses and actually havingkey topics that you do in your house. That might be more project basedlearning. Andi. I think there's really opportunities Tio do that further. Tellme a bit more about your thoughts about what currently doesn't work. Then ineducation, up to 18, you've had this extraordinary experience that it isprobably quite limited for a lot of people on before we get onto whatgenius you does and how it plans to revolutionise that what's not working?Yeah, I think there's. There's definitely only so much I can speak onand on. A lot of that has to do with the fact that I only went to one schoolin my high school years, so I don't have a lot of comparative experience,so I can't speaking a lot from experience. But from what I've heardfrom other students, like when I when I when I went to college, I ended upelecting to go to the U. S on I went there because it was the furthest Icould possibly get away from the world that I had grown up in and I didn't dothat because I didn't like the world I grew up in. I just wanted somethingradically different on I wanted to experience. I wanted to put myself ininto an experience that took me out of my comfort zone and it definitely tookme out of my comfort zone. But I ended up moving to San Francisco. I enrolledin art art school, which was very on character for me, but I actually endedup transferring out of that school after a year and a half, because thepace of life in San Francisco and the culture shock was so much that I justwanted to be somewhere more quiet. So I moved up to Oregon, which is abeautiful, beautiful place. But in moving their first of all, I was I.When I landed, I felt like an alien. But the you know, the other studentsthat the school had all come from, you know, public schools or some privateschools. In the US, very few international students, internationalstudent population was small and those that were international students, nonehad been from any anything remote, remotely like the background that I hadcome from. And so I found some refuge in international students because atleast we could all experience the culture shock together. But on theother hand, in having conversations with the students in the U. S. Whenthey asked me about what my high school had been like and I said to them it wasbrilliant, they looked at me like I was an alien, so they looked at me, youknow, like I really felt that way because they could not fathom that youcould enjoy high school, and that was the first thing. But I think it's likedeathly wrong with the system is if there's a system that students arecoming out of and going, Oh my gosh, I would never do that again like there'ssomething wrong. Learning shouldn't...

...feel like that Learning should feel, um,exciting and inspiring. And there's this and there's a case to be made,like, I know that there are people that might be listening or people who workin education who were like, Well, the point is not for education to be fun.The point of education is that you want something. But you could also arguethat, like physiologically, the way that we experience things alsoindicates whether or not we're actually going toe absorb information, right? Ifif your hands on in a project that's really interesting, that's making youask questions, you're gonna remember more about what you learned in thatproject than if you're sitting doing a standardised test that you've had tostudy for for like, two weeks without sleeping properly. Having anxiety aboutthe test beforehand and then you do the test, you walk away you never rememberany of the knowledge right on, and it's not really character building. I thinkthere's like old fashioned ways of thinking about character building thatare like, Oh, well, if it's difficult than it's character building But Idon't I reject that notion. I think that the more the more people canengage in what it feels like to be an active loner that more people could beengaged in understanding how to think through difficult concepts. You know,howto actually problem solved through a process. Those are the things that thatstudents can then walk away with and do something about it. And I sawUniversity Muchmore that way, and I think that's because there is so muchself directed learning. We underestimate Children. We think theycan't direct their own learning right at the green school. For sure there'sthere's teachers who are guiding the experience of students. There'steachers who are even in the very young years who are creating somatic units.But then they're asking the students questions and the students asking theteacher's questions, and there's a responsive learning process, whereas Ithink in the current school system, in many cases, teachers of positions ofauthority. Students are subjects who must, like be there for the learning,but they're not actively engaged in the learning. And then teachers wonder whystudents are more interested in the classes. And it's not the fault of theteacher's right. It's very much the fault of the system of students arerequired to do a number of standardised tests on DH teachers are expected toget a set amount of results for those students are the words of the parentsare gonna be unhappy because if the students don't get the results and theycan't finish school and then they can't go to university and then they're nevergonna make anything of their lives, like of course, the whole thing isbroken. So I think there's something around the way that we measure. Successis off the way that we measure success of students the way that we measuresuccess of schools is off, and that's because schools were built to putpeople into jobs for a time that no longer really exists, or one of thejobs that you know, we talk about this all the time. I think this is like verymuch the the rhetoric, even in the media now, like schools of preparingstudents for jobs that aren't going to exist in five years. 10 years, 20 years.You know the world is gonna look so radically different from the way itlooks now on DSO Really being able to teach people how to learn rather thanwhat to learn becomes I think of paramount importance. I hope thatanswers your question. Oh, I absolutely think it does. I obviously agree withyou about where, where we're at in terms of the purpose of schools on DH,that disconnect between even the jobs...

...of today. Never mind tomorrow on DH,that sense that, you know, you go through this process and you get this.It means that you can then go on to do that. And then you can't go on to dothat. But I was quite interested. You chose to do G. C s s. So you recognisethat there is a ticket You have to get to go on. What would you replace thatticket with? Nears an employer? How am I gonna know that you can actually domy job? What would you replace the ticket with? Yeah, so there areactually on. And this is where we start to get into, like, who's already doingthis right? Because they're already knew tickets that air coming aboutbecause more and more employers are realising that it actually is notvaluable. Whether or not you graduated from college, it doesn't mean a lot,except for the fact they managed to pay attention to one thing for four yearsand commit to it right doesn't mean a lot more than that, unless unlessyou're in maybe like a medical field or a practical field in which you knowyour degree indicates that you have the appropriate level of study. But if youdo anything liberal arts related, your degree is more or less useless unlessyou unless you turned around and decide to go into teaching, probably, or amaster's degree, right or a master's thesis, which is totally a valid routeof study, and I encourage it. But I think on the other hand, for you know,a lot of the careers of today the ticket. Right now there are differentcompanies issuing tickets, so if you look at Google, Google has a number ofdegree programmes. Now that are like $200 which is far more affordable thanmost universities around the world. Unless well, maybe not around the world,particularly in the US, right where students are occurring mass amounts ofdebt to get an education that's not taking them anywhere necessarily. SoGoogle already has these degree programmes and Google is recognisingtheir own degree programmes. So if you apply to Google, you don't have acollege degree and maybe you've come straight out of high school. But you'vedone five of their degrees and you're accredited in them. They're going tolook at you as a potential hire. On the other hand, there are a number of othercompanies. I know that there are companies in Southeast Asia during thisreally well where they're actually, you know, now running trade programmes. Or,you know, training programmes where you can train under their company Bana andthen move on to work with. Um, this is great if you're looking to working onthe specific companies, right? But it's not great if you like, But I just wanta ticket generally much like, you know, my GCS ticket could have got me intoany number of universities around the world, while salt of the U. S. Was abit hasty about that. But I managed to convince my my entry folk so that endedup okay, But, you know, so what? What is the credit system? And there is anamazing amount of technology that can supplement what we have been doing onpaper for many years, and I think it'll likely I don't remember when my highschool diploma it sits right now. I'm not sure if I could track it downonline, because I'm not sure how sad we were storing things online and the samethings go. Good thing goes for my college degree right now. I'm sure it'sin one of my boxes somewhere. That's not I've never pulled it out since Igot it, if not once, used my college degree, but anything professional sincegraduating and, you know, I totally understand there are people that do interms of what can the ticket be replaced with my my best thinking atthis point? And it's something that a...

...number of different companies are nowdoing online is some sort of Blockchain based tracking system, and it meansbeing able to create standards of what we what an accreditation looks like,but also that companies can that we can unite the education that's nowavailable online around the world into, like, pathways so that companies cansay Okay, well, I'm not necessarily interested in someone who went touniversity. Or maybe someone is maybe someone like, Yeah, it has to be auniversity graduate, But I also want them to have skills in these particularareas, and they must be accredited, much like when you go scuba diving. Youknow, they used to not be a scuba diving licence. And then Patty showedup, and Patty was like, This is a very dangerous sport, actually. Maybe weshould, like, create a licencing system. And so Patty went and they developed ayou know course. And then they developed the licences. And now, ifyou're going scuba diving, you're gonna go look for a patty licence shop. Youknow, other. Now there's also the SS I certifications and stuff, but likepatty was the first to do it. And similarly, you know, university, someuniversity one day or some, you know, they were like, Well, we're gonnacreate an accreditation system. So that people know that when they graduate, itmeans something. Companies are doing that now, too. And now it's a case ofhow do you link those companies together in such a way that theeducation that provided can be validated by someone and, you know ortested? And there's, you know, similarly one of the columns that I'veheard recently from software engineers is there like there's not, you know,how do you test that someone's a good software engineer? Everyone writes codedifferently on DH. There are companies that are now starting to look for Okay,how do we create a test or standard for the way that this is that this is thatthis is then used in Cos. How do we create a standard for the way thatpeople can talk about what level there at in terms of their skill set on, Youknow, for certain subject areas that already exists, and for others it'sgoing to develop an overall like technologically if we want to get intothe tech side of it. Blockchain is for sure gonna be the way in the futurethat we track these things because right now you can track on your creditcard, all the expenses that you that you have, all of the things that you'vepaid out you should have, you know, a way to tap into all the education thatyou've had in your life because I've gone and done, you know, additionalcourses since college. I've done programmes, seminars, workshops. All ofthose should be part of my tracked learning so that a future employer cansee Oh wow, these are the things that Kathleen Khun do. These are the thingsthat she's committed toe learning these air, the outcomes that she's had ofthose learnings or the projects that she's done. You know, the things thatare a mark on who she is and how skilled she is, what she does, you know.And, you know, people do this kind of in their own personal branding. Whenyou have a personal website, right, you could talk about all your accolades andall the things you've done, but there's nothing that guarantees you've done itfor someone else. So I think Blockchain is a technology that allows us to trackactivities and store them in a secure ledger in which it can't be changed bysomeone. It is data, which means that it then shows up when someone looks atit as the truth of what it is on. I think that that's gonna be goingforward. And now there's a number of really exciting companies around theworld that are actually already doing that. And they're linking together. Youknow, Harvard University, Stanford...

University universities in the U. Konline courses with Blockchain based credits that allows students to have anown the data about their education and to be empowered to take that data anduse it in whatever way they want. But then they've always got that as theirown data, being kind of their own credit card of learning absolutely on.I think the I think you're right. I think that's starting to happen. And Ithink the next really interesting challenges, that how we actually areable to capture store peoples lived experience on the skilled translationthat that's then given them because one of my passions is that in all of this,people from the most disadvantaged backgrounds often have the least thefewest tickets to show on DH. Yet if you look at the skills that theydeveloped through living in really difficult, tough circumstances wherethey are facing having Teo feed their siblings before they go to school there,facing having to work straight after school. Their skill development ontheir resilience on DH, their creativity and their team playing a llprobably far more useful to an employer in a conventional ticket on I thinkthere must be ways that we can creatively capture that. But that's notwhat we're talking about today, So I'm going to bring it back to what we'retalking about today on DH. I'd love to hear a little bit from you before weworked up about what a genius you is doing on what you hope to be doing foryoung people in the future. As you descend from adult learning, TeoChildren's learning. So take it away and tell us something about that. Sure,yeah, genius. You. I've been with genius you for just over three yearsnow, but what's been really exciting is the speed at which the vision hasneeded to become reality. So previously we were doing entrepreneur educationthat was mainly around like certifications and programmes foradults to be able to father that business skills and knowledge through,like a number of different programmes and live events, obviously with covetedthis year on the pandemic. If anyone that's listening in the future, there'sbeen a crazy 2020 I'm sure is one for the history books, but all the eventshad to be cancelled. And so one of the main drivers of the whole business wasjust like shut down. And that had already been a vision in place in whichour belief is that entrepreneurs are the most. Did Teo affect social changein the world because they have the ability to create value, direct theflow of money, Understand, like how to turn their skills and talents andpassions into a business into a business that then can supplement therest of the economy and create more jobs and generally just run projectsthat can do good in the world? And we also knew that the education systemdidn't teach people how to do this and that understanding self awareness to beable to move into self mastery to be able to move into self expression isnot a journey that students have taken...

...on and we already had an element ofchild learning. We had, like a personality test for students to beable to take to understand what their key strengths are howto like. Use thosehowto work with others based on your kind of personality and strength. Andthen we knew that we wanted to develop learning programmes for these studentson DH. You know, before the pandemic were too busy running events for adultsto be able to do any of that. What happened was once the events all werecancelled, we moved online and very quickly we found there were people inour community that we're ready to put that content together. So we're workingwith a community of educators in New Zealand in South Africa who are puttingtogether curriculum for what is called the Genius School, which is part of thegenius you family of curriculum, which and they've run a number of like youngentrepreneur academies since the crisis, where students usually from like middleschool to high school age coming on these programmes with their ideas,putting a business plan together and then walking away and executing it. Andthe results have been amazing because when a student is encouraged to take aproject. They're excited about talking skills and tools that they need anorderto be able to execute that in a real world situation. They go and do itbecause they don't have the fear that adults have. You know, adults have allthese limiting beliefs and fears about what we can and can't do based on whatwe were taught in school. But when you encourage the student when they're atthat right learning age, they're just ready to go do it. They don't havethose limiting beliefs and those fears air conditioned into them in earlyadulthood. Um, and so it's been really, really exciting. And in the futurethere's a lot of tying all this learning together into a lifelonglearning pathway by which students and adults and folks who are maybe evenretired can create this cyclical learning environment where the folkswho have had all the life experience can mental the youth. And similarly,the youth can be mentoring. You know, folks in older generations, and thatthey're able to work together on projects apprentice and companiesactually take the personalised learning to the next level by using thatpersonalisation too. Then guide that pathway so genius you is The Ed Techdied of this, which is all about actually tying in the eyes of theperson was learning the Blockchain for the education tracking and in thefuture also creating the method verse of learning online, which is all aboutimmersive learning through a R and d are technologies, right? So all theexciting stuff that is already happening now there's already companiesout there who were doing virtual reality, the learning for students nowespecially. You know, in these current times, it's more important than everthat we continue toe change education, shift it, make it an engaging andexciting experience. And to see the way that technology is coalescing and to beable to make these things possible is really, really exciting. So yeah,that's a little bit about genius. You on What we're doing is amazing, andhaving Bean had the privilege of starting a number of organisations andcompanies designed to have social impact, I absolutely agree that whatyou can achieve if you have that mindset is phenomenal. I'm just goingto close with you because I know I've taken far too much of your time. What would be your key message. Teo,wait. Just here. We don't know whether...

...our young people are going to begetting their tickets this year around the world because of covert, because wedon't know if they're gonna be sitting the exams. So what inspirational takeout? Would you give them what would be your words? Yeah, absolutely. I What Iwould leave them with is that the ticket that they are being handed isnot the only ticket we've been conditioned to believe that there isone way of doing things. And we've been conditioned to believe that there's, umthere's a right way of doing things. The fact of the matter is, I havecountless friends who wanted to go to university and didn't finish atraditional high school diploma because I went to a school that didn't offer atraditional high school diploma. You're you know, and and I know plenty ofpeople that never graduated from college who went on to do everythingthey wanted to do and more in the world. Your ticket, you create your own ticket.And if you decide that what you want to do is to go to university or what youwant to do is you want to work for this super high level company that youbelieve is goingto require some accreditation from you. Start with theend in mind. Don't go into school thinking I'm just gonna do it because Ineed to get the degree. Like, where do you want to go off to that? What is thething that you want to dio? Spend more time discovering what that is beforefeeling disenchanted about not being able to get the prescribed ticket Thereare when you think about a company you want to work for, when you think aboutan outcome that you want in your life, think about what you actually need todo to get there and go and ask the people that are in that position whohave done that thing or who run that company you want to work for. Go andask them. What would it take for you to hire me? What would be what would beYou know, the top number one thing that you would need from me and then go anddo that And I guarantee you, like 99.9% of the time, it's not going to be acollege degree or a high school degree. That's gonna be what's required of you.It's going to be soft skills, which can be learned through life experiences.It's going to be hard skills that can be learned through onlinecertifications. You have the world at your fingertips, so if you don't getyour degree, there is plenty more to d'oh. Well, Cathy, it's been anabsolute pleasure to talk to you. I think one of the things that's quiteclear is that you have been able to really utilise their learning you gotin the green school on Turn it to your advantage. For now, hopefully thebenefit of generations to come. Who will engage with genius? You. Thank youso much for your time. Thank you. So it was a pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episodeof Third Millennium Education. I'd like to know what has been your biggesttakeaway from this conversation. If he did enjoy this episode, do hit thesubscribe button to continue to receive future episodes Podcasts. If you wouldlike to be interviewed or you know somebody who would be good to interview,please also get in touch. I hope you'll join me on the next episode, andtogether we can carry on the conversation to ensure that we can bestmeet the needs of Third Millennium Learners. Employers in the country.Thank you again and see you on the next...

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